[MarkNC]

Earlier in this thread I explained my recent disdain for Porsche as the reason for such a big pivot to pick up two McLarens about a year apart - the Artura and the 750s spider. Both have a high MSO color and both are heavily optioned.

My issue with the 296 is three fold. First, I have never cared for the Ferrari pecking order to get their higher end cars, which is precisely one of the biggest reasons why I have moved on from Porsche to McLaren.

Secondly, I didn’t even consider the 296 when I bought the Artura because of the relative higher cost. Maybe I should have driven one but was so smitten with the balance, driveability and performance of the Artura that I couldn’t imagine paying a lot more for the 296. The 296 and the Artura are the real entry level competitors in that class, esp with their respective hybrid platforms. Not the 750 to the 296. To me, they in are completely different classes for comparisons sake.

Third, IMHO I just can’t get past the looks of the 296 especially from the rear. It’s too much of a corvette look from the rear to me. Once my brain saw a corvette look from the rear of the 296, I just couldn’t unsee it. To each his own…

I had an Artura coupe for about a year but I traded it, and my 720S Spider on the 750S Spider. I loved the Artura. It's far a prettier car, in my opinion, that the 296 GTB and an easier car to live with because it has normal stalks for turn signals, cruise control, and some car functions. Plus it has an easy-to-use central touch screen for everything else. It's plenty of fun to drive and a LOT less money than the 296. The Artura interior is nicer than the 296 interior as well and doesn't light up like a Christmas Tree at night. The Ferrari is faster and a little more playful but you pay a LOT for that and you get a lot of headaches with the Ferrari that you don't get with the McLaren. Oddly enough both the 296 and Artura start up in electric mode and have to "warm up" the engine before you can get full power out of it. Ferrari offers a few more luxury options like heads-up display, heat scarf (on the convertible) and cooled seats but it puts you through interface hell to try to use or adjust them in ways that makes it a little dangerous when you're driving the car on the road. Artura has a very simply straight-forward interface.

 

[MarkNC]

Yeah, true but no one is keeping the 750 or 296 as collectors cars. I also am not planning to keep the either car out of warranty. I’m comparing these two cars so I don’t care about in general statements

[Edited] Not as a collector car, I agree with you there. But I intend to keep the 750S Spider indefinitely unless McLaren makes a better non-hybrid regular series carbon fiber tubbed mid-engine convertible. I don't think there's any plan to make one of those again. I think the 750S replacement will be a hydrid. I'm sure it will be a great car, and maybe I'll buy one, but I won't let the 750S Spider go and I don't want an LT version of the 750S. The LTs got too harsh for my usage case. I already have a Senna for when I want to take a McLaren to the track. I want the exotic-yet-elegant & luxurious comfortable open-top not-too-loud McLaren that has a fire-breathing dragon hidden underneath. The LTs are wonderful but the fire-breathing dragon is exposed at all times with that car! For the folks who want that, they're perfect so it's not a critique just not what I want in a convertible supercar.

 

[MarkNC]

quick question for you; which year 296 do you have? They updated the steering wheel this year so just want to get an idea of which wheel you have.
Thanks

2024 unfortunately. I understand the 2025 has the Purosangue steering wheel with the little indents that make it every slightly more bearable to use the horrible HMI. I have a Purosangue on order and, although I thought of cancelling it once I experienced that interface in the 296, I think I'll take delivery of it and put some miles on to see how I like it and to get to know it. I expect a future revision to the Purosangue will include the new 12Cylindri's center touch screen which is a massive improvement although they still appear to leave some functions to the horrible steering wheel interface and have that awful lighted interface that distracts you from the road. Ferrari is such a mess these days! The cars are so fun to drive but their completely user-hostile to operate. They really need to fire some people.

 

[Nu2Mac]

All I know is, my 750 is the best looking and driving car I’ve ever been in. I like it better than my 765. Wonder how much of a premium this 750 will be worth someday over other 750’s consider it will be the only 750 ever built by MSO with factory carbon mirror arms 🤔

View attachment 248000
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Love it!!! Carbon fiber galore….niiiiice! I ordered an aftermarket CF wing for my 750S. I hope to have it installed soon.

 

[invisiblewave]

That's not true. I intend to keep the 750S Spider indefinitely unless McLaren makes a better non-hybrid regular series carbon fiber tubbed mid-engine convertible. I don't think there's any plan to make one of those again. I think the 750S replacement will be a hydrid. I'm sure it will be a great car, and maybe I'll buy one, but I won't let the 750S Spider go and I don't want an LT version of the 750S. The LTs got too harsh for my usage case. I already have a Senna for when I want to take a McLaren to the track. I want the exotic-yet-elegant & luxurious comfortable open-top not-too-loud McLaren that has a fire-breathing dragon hidden underneath. The LTs are wonderful but the fire-breathing dragon is exposed at all times with that car! For the folks who want that, they're perfect so it's not a critique just not what I want in a convertible supercar.

This is exactly why I bought a 600LTS, my use case is a little different to yours, but it's likely the last non hybrid car that I want and it's hard to see a scenario where I'd want to sell.

 

[Kaiser]

2024 unfortunately. I understand the 2025 has the Purosangue steering wheel with the little indents that make it every slightly more bearable to use the horrible HMI. I have a Purosangue on order and, although I thought of cancelling it once I experienced that interface in the 296, I think I'll take delivery of it and put some miles on to see how I like it and to get to know it. I expect a future revision to the Purosangue will include the new 12Cylindri's center touch screen which is a massive improvement although they still appear to leave some functions to the horrible steering wheel interface and have that awful lighted interface that distracts you from the road. Ferrari is such a mess these days! The cars are so fun to drive but their completely user-hostile to operate. They really need to fire some people.

User-hostile to operate is an understatement…
We disagree on the future collectability of the 750s but it’s a silly discussion anyway, who knows if my crystal ball or yours is working. We can try to give Ms Cleo a ring.

Aside from that, I appreciate all of your information on the cars, as that is what I was looking for. Some sort of insight or direction while the winter months pass me by and I can get behind the wheel of both of them. The thing is, you can only gather so much information on a test drive, so getting owner feedback is valuable to me also.

If a forum member has similar opinions in cars as myself, and also thousands of miles in each car, it’s advice to heed, because I won’t experience those things on a nice, sunny, test drive. Of course, that’s just my opinion.

 

[Matt's McLaren]

Do you consider your 750s to be a Small fish in a big pond or a Big fish in a small pond...?

 

[ZombiePhysicist]

User-hostile to operate is an understatement…
We disagree on the future collectability of the 750s but it’s a silly discussion anyway, who knows if my crystal ball or yours is working. We can try to give Ms Cleo a ring.

Aside from that, I appreciate all of your information on the cars, as that is what I was looking for. Some sort of insight or direction while the winter months pass me by and I can get behind the wheel of both of them. The thing is, you can only gather so much information on a test drive, so getting owner feedback is valuable to me also.

If a forum member has similar opinions in cars as myself, and also thousands of miles in each car, it’s advice to heed, because I won’t experience those things on a nice, sunny, test drive. Of course, that’s just my opinion.

I don’t think he’s saying it’s a collectible or car that will appreciate, just if the 750 is the last “livable” pure-ice-powered McLaren, he won’t be trading it away and will be keeping it to enjoy it. I’m pretty sure he gives few fucks if it goes up or down in resale price.

Also, fyi, @marcnc likely has more cars and miles on those cars…than most anyone in his age group, and frankly outright. There are few owners like him that have that much breadth annnnnnd use of so many cars; relative to most, he likely has shit out and forgot more about these than most w know in this and the next life time. His opinion carries the weight of much experience.

 

[Machiavelli]

Frankly that makes me happy. I want these cars actually used. Those buying cars 'to hold their value', are kind of wasting slots that would otherwise be enjoyed.

Cars as investments are horrendously stupid. Even the F1, if you just put that same money in the S&P over the same time period (and include the annual maintenance), you would have done better. And it doesnt get much better than the F1.

These are depreciating assets that need to be enjoyed, IMO. They just depreciate at slower and faster rates.

Clutching on to a 765 and not using it seems to be some kind of awful sin IMO. Then again, if you want to nail your car to the wall and look at it as an art piece, more power to you. Vive la diféfrence!

Not true with the S&P vs F1, S&P is up about 8X since 1995 while F1 is 20X.

But generally its true that the S&P kills cars as investments, even the ones that are limited.

 

[Kaiser]

Do you consider your 750s to be a Small fish in a big pond or a Big fish in a small pond...?

View attachment 248004

I’m gonna be honest brother, I don’t know what the hell you’re talking about half the time, but god bless.

 

[ZombiePhysicist]

Not true with the S&P vs F1, S&P is up about 8X since 1995 while F1 is 20X.

But generally its true that the S&P kills cars as investments, even the ones that are limited.

S&P 500 Return Calculator, with Dividend Reinvestment

Estimate historical investment performance with the S&P 500 calculator. Show both inflation-adjusted and nominal returns, plus dividends.

dqydj.com

That doesnt include dividend reinvestment, which brings it up to 1571% (the power of time compounding). And it doesnt include, like I said before, the 30 years of insane cost of ownership/maintenance of the F1. So again, you'd do better with the S&P and the F1 is one of the best returns ever.

Car "investment" is a big joke, IMO, and it's more like playing the lottery than true investing for most people.

Of course there are other ways of looking at it. Perhaps it's your business, buying/selling. Sure. Or it's just a passion. Fine. But investment, it is not, IMO. But as always, YMMV.

 

[TokyoCyanArtura]

All I know is, my 750 is the best looking and driving car I’ve ever been in. I like it better than my 765. Wonder how much of a premium this 750 will be worth someday over other 750’s consider it will be the only 750 ever built by MSO with factory carbon mirror arms 🤔

View attachment 248000
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LOVE the Tokyo Cyan color!!

 

[invisiblewave]

LOVE the Tokyo Cyan color!!

Everybody loves parfait.

 

[Machiavelli]

S&P 500 Return Calculator, with Dividend Reinvestment

Estimate historical investment performance with the S&P 500 calculator. Show both inflation-adjusted and nominal returns, plus dividends.

dqydj.com

View attachment 248007


That doesnt include dividend reinvestment, which brings it up to 1571% (the power of time compounding). And it doesnt include, like I said before, the 30 years of insane cost of ownership/maintenance of the F1. So again, you'd do better with the S&P and the F1 is one of the best returns ever.

Car "investment" is a big joke, IMO, and it's more like playing the lottery than true investing for most people.

Of course there are other ways of looking at it. Perhaps it's your business, buying/selling. Sure. Or it's just a passion. Fine. But investment, it is not, IMO. But as always, YMMV.

You need to subtract fees from owing the S&P 500 over that period which if you owned them via an ETF were higher back then.

If someone bought an F1 and put it on a trickle charger his cost of ownership wouldn't be that significant.

 

[Kaiser]

You need to subtract fees from owing the S&P 500 over that period which if you owned them via an ETF were higher back then.

If someone bought an F1 and put it on a trickle charger his cost of ownership wouldn't be that significant.

Is this a barn F1? And the guy bought it day 1? It’s just not feasible, be honest with yourself. Better off hitting the casino and betting on black

 

[Machiavelli]

Is this a barn F1? And the guy bought it day 1? It’s just not feasible, be honest with yourself. Better off hitting the casino and betting on black

387 KM, they exist

Record-breaking, low-mileage McLaren F1 returns to auction block - Magneto

 

[Kaiser]

387 KM, they exist

Record-breaking, low-mileage McLaren F1 returns to auction block - Magneto

I meant that they have to be taken care of still. Some controlled environment which costs money, service still needs to be performed, etc. It does exist, but we are talking like 4 cars ever and only a few people who kept them the proper way. This is a silly discussion

 

[Machiavelli]

I meant that they have to be taken care of still. Some controlled environment which costs money, service still needs to be performed, etc. It does exist, but we are talking like 4 cars ever and only a few people who kept them the proper way. This is a silly discussion

It's a theoretical exercise, we're ruling out human meddling, just like no one buys the S&P 500 and holds it 30 years, if we introduce investor behaviors we know darn well no one would achieve the theoretical returns presented above.

 

[alexceres]

Car "investment" is a big joke, IMO, and it's more like playing the lottery than true investing for most people.

Of course there are other ways of looking at it. Perhaps it's your business, buying/selling. Sure. Or it's just a passion. Fine. But investment, it is not, IMO. But as always, YMMV.

As best I can tell, the amateurs trying to make money in car investments, instead of being the finance officer or GM at a dealership, are basically the equivalent of day traders. The pros love these guys to be on the other side of their trades.

 

[alexceres]

I meant that they have to be taken care of still. Some controlled environment which costs money, service still needs to be performed, etc. It does exist, but we are talking like 4 cars ever and only a few people who kept them the proper way. This is a silly discussion

More importantly it requires they never invested in any other cars which depreciated hugely and in fact weren’t in the car investment business at all but instead magically picked just winners and no losers and then went home before the House won. it’s like saying they only invested in Tesla, or Google, or bitcoin from the very beginning. It’s a completely fake scenario. At least investing in the S&P500 for decades is something people actually do (in 401ks and such)