Wow, thanks Mark!

 

Hehe, some of us knew all along it sat above 12C rather than replacing it, oh the pain of not being able to tell you all!

 

What a pointless post.

 

As I posted weeks ago

At the upcoming Geneva Motor Show 2014, McLaren set to introduce its third supercar dubbed the McLaren 650S. Now the very first image of the car has been teased.

Despite dropping the 12C from the name, we believe that the name of the McLaren 650S speaks volumes as it’ll likely deliver just that, 650 hp. If correct, this would mean that the McLaren 650S delivers around 30 hp more than the 12C and is likely to act as a rival to the new Ferrari 458 Speciale.

As with both the 12C and P1, the 650S is set to utilise the same 3.8-liter twin-turbo V8 set to underpin further models into the future.

In the lead up to the release of this image, it was believed that McLaren was actually going to introduce a sports car to sit below the 12C, dubbed the P13, and pinned to produce round 450 hp from its twin-turbo V8. While this car isn’t that, we still expect it to come along down the road.

As for the McLaren 650S, with its extra punch it should definitely hit 100 km/h from a sprint in 3 seconds flat and it will inevitably reach a top speed I excess of 320 km/h.

For more details about the McLaren 650S as they emerge, be sure to stay tuned to GTspirit in the coming days and weeks!

 

So... is it the equivalent to a 12C Sprecial/GT3/Whatever, or is this an entirely new designed car?

 

Is there still a P15 or was this it?

 

I think the best way to think of it is that there will be three versions of 'P11'; 12c Coupe, 12c Spider, 650S.... P15 should be something totally separate that won't break cover for a few years.

-Jamie.

 

For those who aren't in the know, if not even a bit slow, for us can anyone please further explain the above below?

(In a Dr. Seuss voice... )

This 650S model is a 12C "special edition" in the same niche as what a Speciale is to a 458 Italia, a Superleggera is to a Gallardo?

This 650S will just feature cosmetic changes and performance enhancements, relative to the existing 12C?

So, it'll be a range of 12C Coupe, 12C Spider, and 650S?

Answers baby, answers. I can't wait till March!

 

Will this mean a power upgrade for the 12c in the near future??? That would be very cool

 

No, sorry...

 

There is likely going to come another release a bit closer to geneva with a few more details.

 

Interesting what this article states:

"McLaren has previewed its third supercar, dubbed 650S, ahead of the Geneva motor show with a preview shot showing the model’s name badge.
The 650S is understood to be a short-run model based on the 12C, but it will feature extensive styling changes, including a P1-style nose, and will be engineered to have more character than the existing car.
The ‘650’ name is thought to refer to the 650ps (641bhp) output of the tweaked twin-turbo 3.8-litre V8 engine. By comparison, the standard car gets 616bhp from the same powerplant, with a top speed of 204mph and a 0-60mph time of 3.2 seconds.
Two versions will be available, one with a ‘carbon kit’ to further distinguish the car’s looks. Sources say a 12C replacement, which will be heavily influenced by the 650S, will be shown later this year. The new model is destined to rival the Ferrari 458 Speciale, which has 597bhp on tap from its V8 engine.
Official pricing for the 650S has yet to be announced, but it's likely to cost around £20,000 more than the £176,000 12C coupé. It's expected that most buyers in the UK will opt for the new model over the standard 12C when it goes on sale.
The introduction of the 650S means McLaren's product portfolio continues to grow. As well as its current crop of models, the company is also working on an entry-level model to rival the Porsche 911, dubbed P13, and a new supercar to sit between the 12C and P1, named P15."

http://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/geneva-motor-show/new-mclaren-650s-supercar-ready-geneva-debut

 

Interesting what this article states:

Sources say a 12C replacement, which will be heavily influenced by the 650S, will be shown later this year. The new model is destined to rival the Ferrari 458 Speciale, which has 597bhp on tap from its V8 engine...

reference: http://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/geneva-motor-show/new-mclaren-650s-supercar-ready-geneva-debut

That tid-bit is what I found to be interesting, if not a bit peculiar in that McLaren would already marginalize the 12C, 12C Spider, and forthcoming 650S sales with a calendar-year reveal of the replacement version!

This market-segment is very fickle to such things (manufacturer rumors/releases, economic conditions, et'al)...

 

6505 hp! Wow!

 

This is the actual PR:
http://media.mclarenautomotive.com/release/239/

Anything else you "read" on sites is added on by them based on rumors.

 

You mean based on mLife members posing as insiders.

 

If C stands for Conventional, I'm out.

Also, if this car is only 6kg lighter than a Conventional 12C, it is NOT a 458speciale rival.

Any of you that seem to have breakfast with Ron weekly care to lob a guess on curb weight? Or will that violate your signed NDA too...

 

Ron had muesli for breakfast.,,
Oh darn ill get my coat...

 

I'm really hoping this is a true GT3/Speciale competitor. Cut that weight by 100 kg please. It's place in the market wouldn't make sense if it wasn't. It would be competing directly with its brother in the market

 

I don't see big track gain ever coming on the MP4.

If someone really wants a track car why not buy a track car - it's a lot safer and taking a road car to a track once a driver gets good is IMO ... not a good idea.

 

Either way it's very exciting times for the brand. Really keen to see the styling on this 650S.

 

Very cool, I bet it will be stunning.

 

Here we go again! Insiders unite!

 

I'm also told that 12c production is over, it's 650s coupe/spider or nothing and this is not a Speciale it's now the standard car. Price properly specced circa £230k but to include ceramic brakes and other bits as standard. As an early UK 12c adopter with 2 years' ownership before my car is obsolete feels like I've been an £80k depreciation guinea pig. Hope I'm wrong and 12c residuals improve but gut feeling is they'll continue to tank because new car is where it really should have been at launch.

 

Sad i cancelled my 991turbo s order and bought old 12c instead...

 

-

I've also heard that the 12c is now discontinued.

I was thinking about trading in my 12c and was given some quite sobering news from a McLaren dealer, the trade in price was beyond belief.

McLaren obviously do not care about their customers, nor listen, a great pity.

Not happy, so I've now moved the car on and gone back to Ferrari. I can only imagine how many other customers will do the same.

 

It's going to be an interesting inflection point for the brand. Clearly there is massive momentum with the P1 launching with what appears to be a triumphant start. At the same time, the closed end lease deal on the 12C Spider feels a bit like a run out deal, but also with a nice cap to downside risk with the fixed residual. Clearly, the lads in the suits understand the risk factors in owners' minds.

How the 12C fares in all of this will be important to the brand. I do think many on this forum are a bit optimistic about what to expect regarding depreciation, but at the same time, the guys who can afford these cars are usually both sophisticated and well-informed, and will help form the world's POV on the ownership experience. I'm thrilled with my car, and glad I signed on. The cost of ownership is part of that experience just as it is with Aston or Lambo to name two brands that are great, but also depreciate rather sharply despite their obvious charms.

 

Wow, if 12C is discontinued, can't be retro-fit, and the 650 is radically different, they have fucked people pretty bad, especially in the US. Early cars are barley even two years old and Spiders are mostly less than 1.

I can see people still wanting 12C coupes being that the prices are so far below MSRP, but god help the person who tries to move a barely used 2013/2014 Spider. If you bought a new car recently, you'll take an even bigger bath than the initial ones.

I haven't been very critical of McLaren marketing or strategy, but this is just a disaster if it's radically different with no retro-fit option.

 

Very much my worry too

 

I dont understand why all of you have only just decided to worry about the depreciation?? For anyone who bought his car new in 2011-2012, we took the hit a long time ago. I cant see the 650 making matters any worse. Actually it may do us all good for the 12C to cease so that dealers can stop giving them away new for nothing....!! There were no discounts in 2011 and early 2012. Now they are giving the car away and thats why you can buy a 2012 coupe in the UK for £125k. Scandalous!!
I hope the 650 is a great looking car which will help it sell at full list and hopefully retain much of it. Only then do we have a chance for the market to start appreciating the bargain 2011 and 2012 cars.
I dont see them dropping any lower, but anyone who has recently paid list for a spyder - bad luck!

 

It's not depreciation I am concerned about. Just didn't think the current car would be obsolete two years in.

Mark, the promise for earliest adopters was that the first and last 12Cs would be the same spec. Perhaps Andy can shed more light.

 

I can't imagine that McLaren would promise such a thing. It makes no sense for any car company to do that. Model variants are precisely how cars like the 12C can last in the marketplace for many years. Lamborghini is the master of that. Ferrari often do model variants as well. There was California, then California 30, California 30 HS and now California T. I don't see why Ferrari can do this and McLaren can't. Personally I'm quite excited about the 650S and I plan to buy one.

More news and buzz around the brand should ultimately HELP the resale value of the cars already out there because they're AMAZING cars and they feel like they're going to last forever. If Autocar is right, that this is an updated/improved/slightly-restyled 12C, it will help win over reviewers about the 12C and McLaren in general. I've never bought that nonsense that the 12C is "clinical" compared to the 458. The revelation at the end of the Chris Harris P1 review kind of illustrates how easy it is to underestimate McLaren's cars. Most people just aren't ready to go into a corner carrying the kind of speed the 12C handles with aplomb but sends the Ferrari 458 sideways scrambling for grip. They're used to the Ferrari screaming uncle around the corner so they assume the Mac will do the same and drive it like a Ferrari. They're afraid to push it and apprehensive about how far to push the throttle pedal down which you need to push down a lot further than a 458 to get the full effect. But once you've spent enough time getting used to it, holy crap does it kick the shit out of the 458. Now along comes one "engineered to have more character than the existing car" and that, combined with the amazing reviews the P1 is getting, should mean open season on declaring that McLaren has achieved their goal of making the best drivers cars in the world. McLaren is gradually chipping away the reputation rock. With every smash of the hammer their reputation is going to closer and closer to what they want it to be and what we as owners should want it to be.

So if McLaren does a few tweaks that cause reviewers to look again and realize they actually did make a better can than Ferrari then that will raise the tide for McLaren and you know what they say about rising tides: A rising tide lifts all boats. In this case it's all McLarens

Your car is still a fantastic car that will bring you years of enjoyment, even if a new one comes out that's an upgrade over yours. Those things are inevitable. You shouldn't let it ruin the enjoyment of your car.

So I'm excited about the 650S and I called to make sure I'm in line for one as soon as it can be built to my spec. I can't wait to find out exactly what I'm buying! This sounds crazy but I've been so incredibly delighted with the 12C Spider that I don't even need a test drive to know I want the next version of this car. Heck I'm so delighted with the 12C that I ordered a P1.

But most importantly, I think it's best to wait for McLaren to release all the details before jumping to conclusions. The Geneva reveal of the car is 3 weeks from today.

 

I'm not concerned with the depreciation since I paid less than $200K for it, but the whole thing leaves a bad taste in your mouth. It's just bad planning and marketing.

We don't know all the details, but the make or break will be the retro-fit options. If you can't do it, it's a disaster imo.

I'd also like to point out that new car sales require a good balance between both new and used markets. They need to support each other. You need used demand to support residuals, and you need residuals to support new sales. A non-retro-fit update so soon hurts both markets.

 

I think you guys are all worked up over mis-information (as usual on this forum). The 12C is is done production for the model year, the 2015's 12C will be coming after Geneva.

 

This is my thought too given the press release makes it sound like they will both be available, however some on here are saying they've been told the 12C is in fact done.

Only time will tell I guess,