[CarMeister]

I wouldn't bet against it, especially if independent test against their competitors reveals a performance inadequacy. In examining all the component selections of the big three, I believe McLaren engineered the most flexible platform to easily adjust power, power delivery and chassis setup. This is where I believe they have quite the advantage for any future optimizations if needed. Genius.

Oh Yeah?

How did you come to this conclusion before the LaFerrari has been even released?

I'm sure the boys in Maranello would be miffed at your lack of confidence in their upcoming production process (as far as what they could improve, add or tweak on vehicle within reason)?

In addition, Porsche openly states the 918 and it's easily removable batteries have been built for future upgrades and technology, along with it's HTML 5 based customer interface? The 918 is a clean slate design as well.

And we know Porsche has been continually upgrading the car during/before it's actually release (and has the budget to do so). So who would you place your bets on regarding this aspect (Porsche, Ferrari, or McLaren)?

Interesting conclusion though.

 

[CA_MP4]

Indeed - from a technical point of view, the McLaren platform and design philosophy lends itself for much easier upgrades compared to the brand you keep on hyping on here:

-turbocharged engine
-Tenneco suspension
-electric drive via gearbox

Just to name the most obvious.

In my humble opinion, Porsche should try to fend off Nissan, that is where their real loss will be if they don't get their act together fast.

Oh Yeah?

How did you come to this conclusion before the LaFerrari has been even released? I'm sure the boys in Maranello would be miffed?

In addition, Porsche says that the 918 and it's easily removable batteries have been built for future upgrades, technology, along with it's HTML 5 based customer interface? The 918 is a clean slate design.

And we know Porsche has been continually upgrading the car during/before it's actually release (and has the budget to do so). So who would you place your bets on regarding this aspect (Porsche, Ferrari, or McLaren)?

Interesting conclusion though.

 

[McDc]

In my humble opinion, Porsche should try to fend off Nissan, that is where their real loss will be if they don't get their act together fast.

Not wanting to defend Porsche in any way but I don't see any significant loss (past or future) on their side because of Nissan.

The GTR is a truely amazing car, mostly technically and maybe not so much optically, but they don't steal a lot of customers from Porsche. If memory serves me right, Nissan produced around 6K to 7K since 2007 so that's a tiny 1000 cars per year, compared to over 100'000 cars per year produced by Porsche.

Of course I can only speak for europe, but over here, the GT-R plays the role of a niche player, be it on road or track.

 

[CA_MP4]

Here in the States the sales GT-R to 911 turbo are about equal - but that is a flawed argument: The GT-R sales are eating into Porsche sales, which was not the case before the GT-R was sold worldwide.

It is the same with the 458/Gallardo sales - they have not benefited from the introduction of the MP4, even though the Mac sales are much smaller than the Ferrari.

I would be a 458 owner were it not for the superior performance of the MP4 - there you have it.

 

[CarMeister]

Here in the States the sales GT-R to 911 turbo are about equal - but that is a flawed argument: The GT-R sales are eating into Porsche sales, which was not the case before the GT-R was sold worldwide.

It is the same with the 458/Gallardo sales - they have not benefited from the introduction of the MP4, even though the Mac sales are much smaller than the Ferrari.

I would be a 458 owner were it not for the superior performance of the MP4 - there you have it.

What are you talking about?

This is a bold face lie and utter nonsense

Andy was correct. The GTR is a sales failure, especially compared to Porsche. Where are you getting your info?

The GTR only sells about 800-100 cars a years in the US (or every where outside of Japan). In other years it's sold as low as 700+. And this is since it's world wide release. Face it. The GTR's been a poor seller, sales albatross. In reality, it's a loss leader and vanity project for Carlos Ghosn; which is fine if he wants to do this.

Meanwhile, Porsche sells more GT3's, and Turbo's alone individually by multiples in the US alone, mind you their other sports cars, or in other countries. Porsche sells about 10,000 911's in the US alone (mind you world wide, where the total was 25,000 in 2012); all more expensive than GTR's by the way. Porsche also sells multiples more of Caymans and Boxters (i.e. in the thousands) vs the GTR worldwide as well, if you wanna include them.

The GTR does not compete in anyway with 911's or other Porsche from any market dynamic stand point. It's only something GTR fan boys wish to believe. However, it's never been a reality in the market place for a multiplicity of reasons. 90% of 911 or Porsche buyers, would never seriously even consider a GTR. And the sales (or lack of them for Nissan), and market research back this up. Articles have even been written on "why the Nissan GTR Is such a poor seller"?

I thought everyone (especially serious purchasers, commentators, market watchers, or enthusiast), were aware this.

SMH

 

[CA_MP4]

Your rabid response just confirms my argument - Porsche feels threatened by Nissan...... or why exactly did Porsche copy the 4-wheel steering from Nissan?

What are you talking about?

This is a bold face lie and utter nonsense

Andy was correct. The GTR is a sales failure, especially compared to Porsche.

The GTR only sells about 800-100 cars a years in the US (or every where outside of Japan). In other years it's sold as low as 700+. And this is since it's world wide release. Face it. The GTR's been a poor seller, sales albatross. In reality, it's a loss leader and vanity project for Carlos Ghosn; which is fine if he wants to do this.

Meanwhile, Porsche sells more GT3's, and Turbo's alone individually by multiples, mind you their other sports cars. Porsche sells about 15-20,000 911's, all more expensive than GTR's as well, by the way.

The GTR does not compete in anyway with 911's, or other Porsche from any market stand point. It's only something GTR fan boys wish to believe, but it's never been a reality in the market place for a multiplicity of reasons. 90% of 911 or Porsche buyers, would never seriously even consider a GTR. And the market back this up.

I thought everyone (especially serious purchasers or commentators), were aware this.

SMH

 

[CarMeister]

Your rabid response just confirms my argument - Porsche feels threatened by Nissan...... or why exactly did Porsche copy the 4-wheel steering from Nissan?

It wasn't a rabid response.

Just facts (to your not so great one). I was actually incredulous than an alleged knowledgeable enthusiast could say what you did.

As Andy said, This information is/was well known.

Nonetheless, we can move on now, if you actually believe either of what you said.

I gotcha!

 

[Peloton25]

You've got to wonder about a guy who's own existence is apparently so boring that he frequently trolls a competitive brand's message forum just to promote another product. If I was a big fan of Coca-Cola you wouldn't find me wasting my time trying to convince Pepsi drinkers they were wrong all the time - that's just silly and a waste of time.

The Nissan GT-R might not be stealing enough sales from Porsche to have a significant effect on their bottom line, but Nissan's efforts at the Ring have clearly presented Porsche with a marketing problem on their home turf a number of times. And how sad is it that Porsches are now being frequently compared to a product from what I consider to be the 'Chrysler' of the big three Japanese brands.

>8^)
ER

 

[Mark ANTAR]

it wasn't a rabid response.

Just facts (to your not so great one). I was actually incredulous than an alleged knowledgeable enthusiast could say what you did.

As andy said, this information is/was well known.

Nonetheless, we can move on now, if you actually believe either of what you said.

I gotcha!

.

+1

 

[CarMeister]

You've got to wonder about a guy who's own existence is apparently so boring that he frequently trolls a competitive brand's message forum just to promote another product. If I was a big fan of Coca-Cola you wouldn't find me wasting my time trying to convince Pepsi drinkers they were wrong all the time - that's just silly and a waste of time.

The Nissan GT-R might not be stealing enough sales from Porsche to have a significant effect on their bottom line, but Nissan's efforts at the Ring have clearly presented Porsche with a marketing problem on their home turf a number of times. And how sad is it that Porsches are now being frequently compared to a product from what I consider to be the 'Chrysler' of the big three Japanese brands.

>8^)
ER

If you're speaking about me? [Funny] Last I knew, I was commenting in the Porsche 918 section of this website. Gee, who would have thunk it (smacking forehead)?

Funny: Posters like me only joined, to add some info that was requested, needed or overlooked at the time. I also made it clear then I wouldn't post much cause I enjoyed the site when I got a chance to read it (especially at the time when there was more two way viewpoints/info flowing). So there's not much for me to say in general (plus everyone's entitled to their opinion).

Now, if anyone was trolling this board, it was that previous poster--regarding the GTR. I stay out of 99% of the discussions here, when I get a chance to visit the site. I'm a reader, who learns from the various post/ers here as anyone else during those times. I only comment when I feel there's blatant mis-information that I feel compelled to address at the moment (and because I'm already registered), or there's something I can add. The overwhelming majority of the time, I don't, for various reasons; some already stated.

Speaking of needlessly trolling other boards (and blatant, screaming, self indulgent hypocrisy): Haven't we seen you doing the exact same thing you accused me of, while more frequently, recently, and unabashedly in shameless, spectacular fashion on another sports car makers forum (to the incredulous embarrassment, consternation and chagrin of so many other flummoxed posters)? Just saying? LMAO. Regardless; I'll leave that alone, since apparently, discretion, shame, humility and self evaluation are clearly not some of your stronger suits. I get it now. Nonetheless, how rich and ironic coming from yourself (as well as Pot calling kettle black, with Foot Placed Clearly In Mouth, and Head Deep Up Rectum). Gotta Love it/Got it!

As far as the Porsche Nissan thing: That's only a perception with Internet/GTR fan boys (or Porsche haters). It's not even a legitimate thought or impulse with 95% of buyers in their market. Of course you're entitled to your own thoughts and opinion (while there's little doubt you know this already, and are just AHEM "trolling" yourself). Enjoy your week mate.

 

[NVMcLaren]

My tiny brain can't even fathom a P1 with more performance.


After touring the MTC I realized what I liked about Ferrari is they *were* a small but very successful racing company that built a small number of hand built road cars to give average joes like me a small taste of what its like to drive a race car with *real* F1 technology. Ferrari hasn't been that way for a long time but its the best we had. McLaren have changed that, and all the better IMO.

The 918 is an amazing GT car with some great technology but its no race car. Not everyone needs or wants that, I know. However its a defining factor for me.

 

[Peloton25]

If you're speaking about me? The last I knew, I was commenting in the Porsche 918 section of this website. Gee, who would have thunk it?

Funny: Posters like me only joined, to add some info that was requested, needed or overlooked at the time. I also made it clear then I wouldn't post much cause I enjoyed the site (especially at the time when there was more two way viewpoints/info flowing). So there's not much for me to say in general (plus everyone's entitled to their opinion).

Now, if anyone was trolling this board, it was that previous poster--regarding the GTR. I stay out of 99% of the discussions here. I'm a reader, who learns from the various post/ers here as anyone else. I only comment when I feel there's blatant mis-information that I feel compelled to address at the moment (and because I'm already registered), or something I can add. The overwhelming majority of the time, I don't, for various reasons; some already stated.

Speaking of needlessly trolling other boards (and blatant, screaming, self indulgent hypocrisy): Haven't we seen you doing the exact same thing you accused me of, while more frequently, recently, and unabashedly in shameless, spectacular fashion on another sports car makers forum (to the incredulous embarrassment, consternation and chagrin of so many other flummoxed posters)? Just saying? LMAO. Regardless; I'll leave that alone, since apparently, discretion, shame, humility and self evaluation are clearly not some of your stronger suits. I get it now. Nonetheless, how rich and ironic coming from yourself (as well as Pot calling kettle black, with Foot Placed Clearly In Mouth, and Head Deep Up Rectum). Gotta Love it/Got it!

As far as the Porsche Nissan thing: That's only a perception with Internet/GTR fan boys (or Porsche haters). It's not even a legitimate thought or impulse with 95% of buyers in that market. Of course your entitled to your own thoughts and opinion (and have no doubt, you know this already, and are just AHEM "trolling" yourself).

Wow, and you seem overly sensitive too... just saying.

Yes, I was talking about you ( shocking, I'm sure ) and while this is the 918 thread we've seen most of your comments appear in threads that should have nothing to do with a Porsche and your commentary being made specifically about Porsches and just how wonderful they are. "Rabid" is a fairly good descriptor in my view.

As for my participation on any of the more that 100 other forums I have an account on, or more specifically FerrariChat which I assume you are referring to, I have been a lurker there since at least 2003 and a registered and paying yearly subscriber since January 2004. It might surprise you, but my primary motivation for being there is that I am also a fan of some Ferraris ( imagine that? ) and while I do occasionally try to keep the facts straight when the topics stray more towards my areas of interest regarding McLaren that is hardly been my only activity in the 5,000+ posts I have made there in the past decade. That evidence certainly seems counter to your existence here in my opinion, that's all.

>8^)
ER

 

[DLC]

Oh Yeah?

How did you come to this conclusion before the LaFerrari has been even released?

I'm sure the boys in Maranello would be miffed at your lack of confidence in their upcoming production process (as far as what they could improve, add or tweak on vehicle within reason)?

In addition, Porsche openly states the 918 and it's easily removable batteries have been built for future upgrades and technology, along with it's HTML 5 based customer interface? The 918 is a clean slate design as well.

And we know Porsche has been continually upgrading the car during/before it's actually release (and has the budget to do so). So who would you place your bets on regarding this aspect (Porsche, Ferrari, or McLaren)?

Interesting conclusion though.

I was responding to the post that asked if we believed there may be pending performance upgrades after distribution of the P1. My response was submitted referring to the mechanical architecture it was siting on and how easy optimizations could be made to such a platform.

CP_MP4 made the presentation of the mechanical platform as listed:

-turbocharged engine
-Tenneco suspension
-electric drive via gearbox

And another big one is its aero features. If the numbers can be believed the 1350 lbs. of downforce is a big number.

I have no doubt that LaF is going to be insane. And everytime I see video of it, it is looking better and better.

With regards to your post I will make these comments.

Your right: We haven't seen the final products from Ferrari and Porsche is getting optimized every day but from what we do know they have elected NA engines. In an open competition I think that most would agree McLaren with its turbochargers is not a fair fight. Forced induction motors have huge power capabilities really just limited to the design strength of its mechanical components. One disadvantage is their low rpm response due to turbo lag which is where McLaren is implementing their Hybrid "stuff". So effectively, their system has NA response with big high end power on the top. The best of both worlds wouldn't even you agree?

Their suspension system has a huge range of adjustment which adjusting can be made by rather quick software modifications. Having the ability to control their nitrogen delivery instantly is another feature that either LaF or 918 possess, unless you know differently? I believe their system may be a more active control. Haven't seen the final Ferrari product though.

These "hardware" systems, with their ability to be modified rather quickly, makes it easy for McLaren to deliver vehicle optimizing to all their clients in the future. Via disk.

Like you, I am really looking forward to everyones final products. Put who says its over once their delivered. These are tremendous cars built by tremendously talented people. I am just glad we can enjoy, discuss, sometimes (mostly ) disagree and ultimately get to experience these incredible machines. For the petrol heads. ALL GOOD

 

[nicklinacre17]

 

[DLC]

Thanks for sharing Nick. Nice article. Love the 9 minute 18 second presentation.

 

[isv]

Have to admit, I know i've been banging on about not really liking the trend for yet another monstrously fast but computer/electronics intensive car but I would quite honestly sell my soul to have the means to get one..

Aside from magazine reviews which usually one can take with a very considerable pinch of salt, everyone I know non industry related who has driven the car has been unanimous that the car is unbelieveable (like the P1 interestnigly enough...). A cgt owner's comment on pistonheads about the car in particular has stuck in my mind """absolutely love the CGT, but the 918 is clearly a big step on in terms of chassis - better controlled, more innate balance and astonishing traction thanks to the four wheel drive""". The gt for me is by some considerable margin the best car dynamically I have ever driven and for the 918 to be a big step up is incredible.

 

[jkheit]

Man the 918 is so freak'n sweet. And I dig the center console stack begin so flat. Looks very Star Trek Next Generation'ish.

 

[DLC]

Have to admit, I know i've been banging on about not really liking the trend for yet another monstrously fast but computer/electronics intensive car but I would quite honestly sell my soul to have the means to get one..

Aside from magazine reviews which usually one can take with a very considerable pinch of salt, everyone I know non industry related who has driven the car has been unanimous that the car is unbelieveable (like the P1 interestnigly enough...). A cgt owner's comment on pistonheads about the car in particular has stuck in my mind """absolutely love the CGT, but the 918 is clearly a big step on in terms of chassis - better controlled, more innate balance and astonishing traction thanks to the four wheel drive""". The gt for me is by some considerable margin the best car dynamically I have ever driven and for the 918 to be a big step up is incredible.

The CGT is just such a special car. True analog legend. Of all the road cars I own the CGT is without a doubt the most entertaining experience. Your always driving a "race" car once behind the wheel. Just from the exercise to put the car in motion required to properly care for the clutch prepares you for something special. I haven't driven 918 yet put for that CGT owner to make those statements about 918's refinements and performance increases compared to CGT speaks volumes. Welcome to the computer age.

 

[jkheit]

DLC, the 12C and 458 were the first cars to make me feel that "its time to embrace this double clutch and computer stuff."

I feel like a beginner all over again learning how to interplay with these systems and get a feel for it. I imagine it's much the same when pilots went fully by wire with the computers keeping the planes from tearing themselves apart. You learn to play with things at a different level.

The 918, P1 are so epic, and all I can think is, what the hell are cars going to do in another 5 years. It will be fun to see the developments!

 

[DLC]

DLC, the 12C and 458 were the first cars to make me feel that "its time to embrace this double clutch and computer stuff."

I feel like a beginner all over again learning how to interplay with these systems and get a feel for it. I imagine it's much the same when pilots went fully by wire with the computers keeping the planes from tearing themselves apart. You learn to play with things at a different level.

The 918, P1 are so epic, and all I can think is, what the hell are cars going to do in another 5 years. It will be fun to see the developments!

Yeah. No kidding. What a time to be able to watch and do this. We are a lucky bunch.
In five years we can just plug the car into an internet port and when we get behind the wheel we will receive a digital report telling us of the upgrades installed. Then we have to enter our ITUNES password to pay for them. Certainly for the upgrades "we" requested at least. LOL