[chanmanx2k]

Dealer has a vehicle coming ~$251K. Calculated the numbers on leasehackr and the lease payment here would be around $3400/month. This is a leasehackr score of 6.6 years. (71%RV, 0.003 MF)

First time exotic buyer here. I am pretty new to this and have never owned or sold an exotic. I am a pretty lazy person and I have always leased my vehicles in the past. Had an i8 leased for a fantastic leasehackr score of 12 years before this. Would like to get your guys professional opinion if a score of 6.6 years is worth pursuing.

 

[Trevor90]

Dealer has a vehicle coming ~$251K. Calculated the numbers on leasehackr and the lease payment here would be around $3400/month. This is a leasehackr score of 6.6 years. (71%RV, 0.003 MF)

First time exotic buyer here. I am pretty new to this and have never owned or sold an exotic. I am a pretty lazy person and I have always leased my vehicles in the past. Had an i8 leased for a fantastic leasehackr score of 12 years before this. Would like to get your guys professional opinion if a score of 6.6 years is worth pursuing.

3400PM on a vehicle that is 251.. no go. Purchase it..

how much are they asking for down? if it's a true 0 down (inceptions only up front) not bad.. but i'm sure they want at least 15-20k down in CCR

 

[alexceres]

ymmv… I normally focus on a balance of total interest payment and the convenience of some cash flow management (eg no balloon payments). Like at 2% interest the last few years … why pay cash ? Other folks focus on the monthly or minimizing the down payment or tax advantages with their LLC or any number of things.

Now you’d need a hefty down payment to get that $251k under the loan limits of most credit unions or banks. If that’s not possible or convenient, then you’ll pay more interest. 3400PM on 251k is pretty meh when you’re not building that much equity. 29% ownership after 3 years ? You could pay $52K down to conform, and probably get 4.5 to 5.5% interest on a 6 year loan and own the car (eg build equity) for $3200pm. You‘d own 50% of the car in 3 years compared to the lease and pay a lot less per month.

If you’re stretching, then folks like Woodside will do 6% over 10+ years. A much smaller monthly. But also a huge amount of interest over that time means very little equity after 3 years. It’s basically a 10 year lease. I think most folks sell after a few years to cover their loan. It’s more a liquidity service than an asset. I’d avoid it, unless I knew I was only going to keep the car for a year or two. But that leads into some tax issues, as CA isn’t very flipping friendly (without a dealer license or LLC …)

 

[chanmanx2k]

3400PM on a vehicle that is 251.. no go. Purchase it..

how much are they asking for down? if it's a true 0 down (inceptions only up front) not bad.. but i'm sure they want at least 15-20k down in CCR

They haven't given me any figures. Just MSRP, residual, and MF. Here is my calculation. I left all CCR as zero

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[eclou]

I look at leases from a different perspective. Usually the leases are set to cover the cost of depreciation and interest. Roughly the same out of pocket if you took out a loan and sold the car at the same length of term (36, 48, 60, 72 months). The main difference being the bank or financial institution is assuming the risk if the vehicle depreciation exceeds the forecast amount, and you are not.

If your new vehicle gets wrecked/damaged then you can walk away from it at lease end and not take a bath. I always lease first then buy out the lease at the end to pay off the vehicle (if I want to keep it). So in this case I will lease the Artura (its a bit of a risk - first model year, new tech, etc) so if it turns out the gremlins are insurmountable I will walk away with only my predetermined costs being calculated. If it turns out to be a homerun, I will buy it out after term and a significant initial portion of the ownership I will have done so without unforseen risk.

 

[invisiblewave]

I look at leases from a different perspective. Usually the leases are set to cover the cost of depreciation and interest. Roughly the same out of pocket if you took out a loan and sold the car at the same length of term (36, 48, 60, 72 months). The main difference being the bank or financial institution is assuming the risk if the vehicle depreciation exceeds the forecast amount, and you are not.

If your new vehicle gets wrecked/damaged then you can walk away from it at lease end and not take a bath. I always lease first then buy out the lease at the end to pay off the vehicle (if I want to keep it). So in this case I will lease the Artura (its a bit of a risk - first model year, new tech, etc) so if it turns out the gremlins are insurmountable I will walk away with only my predetermined costs being calculated. If it turns out to be a homerun, I will buy it out after term and a significant initial portion of the ownership I will have done so without unforseen risk.

This is also my approach, assuming the interest rate is good enough. With a lease, you're essentially paying interest on a large chunk of capital which is not being paid down, so anything other than 0% is relatively more painful than a loan.

 

[Trevor90]

They haven't given me any figures. Just MSRP, residual, and MF. Here is my calculation. I left all CCR as zero

CALCULATOR | LEASEHACKR

Leasehackr Calculator is the most powerful consumer research tool for car leases and car financing. It integrates lease, finance, and cash purchase programs for virtually all car models in the US and Canada.

leasehackr.com

ask how much down they want, i'm curious.

 

[alexceres]

This is also my approach, assuming the interest rate is good enough. With a lease, you're essentially paying interest on a large chunk of capital which is not being paid down, so anything other than 0% is relatively more painful than a loan.

unless the leases are subsidized by the marque, I find they very rarely have interest rates competitive with straight up financing or other lines of credit (in the USA, ymmv). It does give you a way to negotiate deprecation up front. Which before 2020 was a lot more enticing

 

[invisiblewave]

unless the leases are subsidized by the marque, I find they very rarely have interest rates competitive with straight up financing or other lines of credit (in the USA, ymmv). It does give you a way to negotiate deprecation up front. Which before 2020 was a lot more enticing

Since I no longer run a business, which used to give me tax advantages with leasing, I have only signed leases with a subsidized rate. This is a big psychological barrier for me to Artura ownership.

 

[alexceres]

Since I no longer run a business, which used to give me tax advantages with leasing, I have only signed leases with a subsidized rate. This is a big psychological barrier for me to Artura ownership.

yeah if you have an LLC or something else going on and live in a high tax state there are other possibilities

 

[Viper98912]

I still don't understand how owning a business helps with leasing and tax advantages. I don't see how a McLaren can pass the test of being a reasonable and necessary expense for running a business. Unless your business is supercar rentals... But I may just be uneducated.

In general, I'm a little surprised at what appears to be a significant price increase in the Artura over the 570S. Appears to be in the $25k-50k range? If it helps to keep McLaren a more viable company for the future, then great, but I'm definitely not the target market for this vehicle 😬 I need to go check my mega millons ticket...

 

[unmac]

I still don't understand how owning a business helps with leasing and tax advantages. I don't see how a McLaren can pass the test of being a reasonable and necessary expense for running a business. Unless your business is supercar rentals... But I may just be uneducated.

In general, I'm a little surprised at what appears to be a significant price increase in the Artura over the 570S. Appears to be in the $25k-50k range? If it helps to keep McLaren a more viable company for the future, then great, but I'm definitely not the target market for this vehicle 😬 I need to go check my mega millons ticket...

advertising/marketing expenses . Also , luxury SUV’s mainly exist due to irs section 179.
Attachment is from a supercar dealer in usa

 

[alexceres]

I still don't understand how owning a business helps with leasing and tax advantages. I don't see how a McLaren can pass the test of being a reasonable and necessary expense for running a business. Unless your business is supercar rentals... But I may just be uneducated.

it's a bit outside my wheelhouse, but there is a range of things here. It can be owned out of a high tax state by an LLC, lawfully. The LLC can be a "dealership". The LLC can be bought and sold without selling the car. imho each of these games comes with complications that just aren't worth it, especially if you want to drive the cars, but different folks, different goals. If you're collecting or flipping without driving, different possibilities open up.

In general, I'm a little surprised at what appears to be a significant price increase in the Artura over the 570S. Appears to be in the $25k-50k range? If it helps to keep McLaren a more viable company for the future, then great, but I'm definitely not the target market for this vehicle 😬 I need to go check my mega millons ticket...

Approximately $230 vs $195.

 

[Viper98912]

A luxury SUV, within reason, makes sense and passes the test; a supercar, is questionable (to me, in my opinion). But you're also supposed to separate out personal use vs. business use, if you were following to the letter. All you need is one IRS audit and you're now defending yourself against tax evasion. But again, I'm not an expert and don't really care what everyone does (nor does the car salesman who's name is not listed in your tax return). Sorry for derailing the conversation everyone, just looking to educate myself a little more. I'll get back on topic now.

 

[Anthony D]

As we all know, tax laws in the US were written for the wealthy to stay wealthy really. An $18k/month lease payment on a Senna that gets written off at tax time is laughable unless it is used for a race/HPDE school.

 

[invisiblewave]

As we all know, tax laws in the US were written for the wealthy to stay wealthy really. An $18k/month lease payment on a Senna that gets written off at tax time is laughable unless it is used for a race/HPDE school.

Not just the US. I used to lease because it was 100% deductible, even when buying a Porsche. Things have changed in the UK, and running a company car is no longer advantageous.

 

[Anthony D]

I’m sure… When I was living outside the US tax laws didn’t matter to me because I was young.

 

[Kev the Ref]

advertising/marketing expenses . Also , luxury SUV’s mainly exist due to irs section 179.
Attachment is from a supercar dealer in usa View attachment 221820 View attachment 221821

I’m sure… When I was living outside the US tax laws didn’t matter to me because I was young.

No they just didn't apply to you! If you are an heir then they do. The I.R.S. thinks you are Y.I.S. young irresponsible & stupid.Then you go & do the really stupid things. Get a good job, settle down, buy a 4 door car and property. The IRS is like a shark smelling blood for the first time!

 

[invisiblewave]

No they just didn't apply to you! If you are an heir then they do. The I.R.S. thinks you are Y.I.S. young irresponsible & stupid.Then you go & do the really stupid things. Get a good job, settle down, buy a 4 door car and property. The IRS is like a shark smelling blood for the first time!

The IRS tax rules always apply, whether you're living in the country or not! It's a friggin' nightmare for expats.

 

[unmac]

No they just didn't apply to you! If you are an heir then they do. The I.R.S. thinks you are Y.I.S. young irresponsible & stupid.Then you go & do the really stupid things. Get a good job, settle down, buy a 4 door car and property. The IRS is like a shark smelling blood for the first time!

Maybe try to understand why people do what they do.

sales people aren't the ones telling people to write off lease payments or depreciation. its their observations from the many customers who buy a car through a company and those types informing them of why they are doing what they are doing.

Things will start to make more sense when you start discussing with people who are doing what they do and talking to professionals who are in the business of these types of things; amateur racing would go away if people weren't allowed to sponsor/put their company advertisements in their race company cars to fund their racing (this is a one man race team that I'm talking about). Dentists/real estate agents, financial planners, wrap companies, tuners and anyone who has companies where they have marketing expenses have found ways to use their cars for marketing purposes like other ways (put a sticker on your car, attend rallies, attend cars and coffee to meet people and have your company name plastered on the side of the car and people can make it work.