[V8ray]

The corvette cannot compare to the intrior of the mclaren, it compares to a tahoe ( cheap plastic) I understand they have better ones but no way near the mclaren.

 

[FatFrank]

I do enjoy it when interesting older threads such as this are revitalized. Very interesting looking back on opinions then versus now. Anyway, like Noone said......Z06 is just a Corvette.

 

[lolachampcar]

Well, the real question for me is-
The 12C has lost $100K in roughly 2 1/2 years and 6K miles. Have we seen the bulk of the depreciation curve or are they going to steadily progress down hill even more?

 

[texex91]

Well, the real question for me is-
The 12C has lost $100K in roughly 2 1/2 years and 6K miles. Have we seen the bulk of the depreciation curve or are they going to steadily progress down hill even more?

Most high end exotics loose most of their early depreciation in the first two years. I won't use Bentley GT Speed as an exotic, but it's not uncommon to have a $265k sticker and two years later it's worth $160k...again just one example.

According to dealers (even non-McLaren) they say the 12c depreciation has hit and market has steadied out. Yes, all cars depreciate--Ferrari, Lambo, etc. The value for the money (HP, etc) is amazing on the 12c IMHO, and a great way to get into the brand (or jump to 650).

Watch what is about to happen (and is happening) with 458 market. Prices are dropping on secondary as those waiting for 458T are selling their cars, which is causing 458 to lose value--nature of car releases. Check into a 458 about March next year and you'll be able to steal one.

Remember you from Tesla forum.

 

[FatFrank]

Well, the real question for me is-
The 12C has lost $100K in roughly 2 1/2 years and 6K miles. Have we seen the bulk of the depreciation curve or are they going to steadily progress down hill even more?

I think for straight cars the depreciation is at normal levels, although going through the winter there will always be peope desperate to move the inventory, with a surge in the spring. My money is on the side of price stabilization overall, I think I could almost sell my car for what I paid at the beginning of the year.

 

[dennis]

At McLaren SF the 12C prices have stabilized and even rebounded a bit. They are buying in used 12C coupes because there is demand for them and they aren't getting enough trade-ins to satisfy that demand.This from someone I trust.

 

[extremeride22]

Supply and demand, supply and demand, that's all I have to say. Cheers......??

 

[tommyv]

12c hold it's value?

There is a lot to consider in buying an exotic and specifically a McLaren 12c
1)You first have to accept the fact that it is a used car once it leaves the dealer, like most cars. So used is the best choice. Just find the best deal with the least miles.
2) It's not an investment in assets; it's an investment in pure joy. It's something truly special at the highest apex of automotive design and performance. It's also very limited
3) Unlike other exotics, this has F1 race car breeding all over it.
4) Longer term it will appreciate in value, "if you keep it". But that's not the reason to buy it now. At these prices and times (the depreciating value of the dollar and high horsepower cars) this mix will not be the same in years to come given the faux dollars in circulation and the green movement killing everything oil based. My view is that all McLarens are very limited by comparison and of higher leading edge technology than most others in this category and price. The declining value of the dollar will make hard assets like this (with the fun factor thrown in), worth more much later. So buy now and enjoy. I bought a 12c coupe from a major collector with only 1650 miles on it. The finds are there. Keep looking. I also chose the coupe because I like this design better than the spider. That's just subjective. Buy what you like

 

[texex91]

There is a lot to consider in buying an exotic and specifically a McLaren 12c
1)You first have to accept the fact that it is a used car once it leaves the dealer, like most cars. So used is the best choice. Just find the best deal with the least miles.
2) It's not an investment in assets; it's an investment in pure joy. It's something truly special at the highest apex of automotive design and performance. It's also very limited
3) Unlike other exotics, this has F1 race car breeding all over it.
4) Longer term it will appreciate in value, "if you keep it". But that's not the reason to buy it now. At these prices and times (the depreciating value of the dollar and high horsepower cars) this mix will not be the same in years to come given the faux dollars in circulation and the green movement killing everything oil based. My view is that all McLarens are very limited by comparison and of higher leading edge technology than most others in this category and price. The declining value of the dollar will make hard assets like this (with the fun factor thrown in), worth more much later. So buy now and enjoy. I bought a 12c coupe from a major collector with only 1650 miles on it. The finds are there. Keep looking. I also chose the coupe because I like this design better than the spider. That's just subjective. Buy what you like

All valid points.

 

[lolachampcar]

Tex,
I was lurking for a 458 once they started to move down. My P+ sale opened the door to buy the 12C. It is an awesome car (as Dennis has been telling me for some time).

 

[texex91]

Tex,
I was lurking for a 458 once they started to move down. My P+ sale opened the door to buy the 12C. It is an awesome car (as Dennis has been telling me for some time).

Depreciation is level on 12C's now, grab one and take the driving experience to the next level! Let us know what you decide

 

[lolachampcar]

Oh, sorry I was not clear.
Got one. Love it.
I'm a quality of hardware guy and the McLaren wins hands down over the Ferrari.

 

[texex91]

Oh, sorry I was not clear.
Got one. Love it.
I'm a quality of hardware guy and the McLaren wins hands down over the Ferrari.

Woo hoo!!! LOVE IT!!

 

[kverges]

I came to this thread for information, not misinformation.

The Acura NSX will be around 400HP, I know this because I'm second in line (and have been since 2010). the dealer has had to refund all our monies we have put down on them because it's been almost 5 years. While it will have the look (potentially) of an exotic, the HP is not there. That being said, it will be a great daily driver that myself and most exotic owners will feel comfortable driving without everyone sneering at the $300k+ car.

The Corvette is not an exotic regardless of HP. The fit and finish are not comparable to a Ferrari/Lambo which the majority of enthusiasts would classify as "exotic". Exotic is not a HP demonstration alone, it is the look and FEELING of when you drive it. As I test drove the C7, I loved the look but the car was in NO WAY refined enough to be classified as a supercar or as an exotic. The Corvette, Acura and Porsche are great daily drivers that have great HP/weight and limited novelties that put them in the "exotic" arena.

A 99-04 360 Modena is still considered a better choice for exotic because it IS an exotic. Too expensive, Labor intensive, and couldn't be a worse purchase to spend 70k-150k. After all those negatives, it's still exactly what someone would classify as an exotic because if you've really driven one you would understand and not compared a Corvette to a Ferrari.

Also, I also know my Enzo will destroy my future NSX (whenever it may come out). I wouldn't classify my NSX as "exotic" in any way but I will feel comfortable driving it every day in the rainy season in FL. If you REALLY own an "exotic", then you know the first thing you check is the weather report before you even contemplate driving it.

After all that, this McLaren MP4-12C seems like a great deal, but 0 information on holding it's value 5 years from now. Dealers are doing open ended leases with 65k value (ridiculous, if you have to do this, buy the Corvette or something you can really afford).

I do not understand the point if this post. I have a C6Z06 and a 12C and love them both and drive them both daily but in rotation of a few weeks at a time one getting primary use. Check the weather? Why? They don't melt and if anything I figure the Brits got wet weather performance right.

If anything I drive the 12C more, as it's a '12 and has about 10K miles but my '08 Z has only about 20K.

Everything new depreciates with only the rarest exceptions, and even then go put 10K on it and see if it doesn't drop in value.

Nobody lives for ever and I am not holding my car for the next owner. I intend to enjoy it now.

 

[Lukeylikey]

12C with P Zeros is very driveable in the wet, outstanding in fact - especially considering it is a high power turbocharged rear wheel drive car.

Depreciation is different in respective markets but I think two cars will influence where it ends up over the next few years - the 430 and 458.

The reason I believe this is that the 12C was a direct competitor for the 458 - it was faster, more modern technology and more powerful. The 458 was from a 'blood-line' that had a much larger following and acceptance and had a n/a engine, which defines the driving experience and the differences between the two cars.

There will be many who prefer the 458 in the future because additional speed of new turbo products from most brands makes the advantages of the 12C over the 458 more irrelevant to most of those people and possibly enhances the appeal of the n/a cars. However, some of them will start to feel that turbocharged, McLaren and more power is something desirable and I think the used market could see more of a bleed from 458 to 12C over time than the new market has seen. This means that the 12C will be a little behind the 458 in value but not too much and if there is a bigger bleed from 458 to 12C because people want the power to 'keep up' with their 458T mates then 12C could well narrow the gap (gap is about about 20% car for car in the UK currently).

So, I would expect the 12C to track the 458 slowly down, the 458 finishing about 25% ahead of the 430 once 458T is a few years into its cycle.

Therefore, the other car is the 430. The differences in performance and technology are so vast between the 12C and 430 that I think the 430 will be make a kind of 'base' for 12C values. It will be some while before any of them are being affected by 'classic' value, where heritage, significance and appearance take over from image, performance and technology as value drivers - then it's anybody's guess (although 12C might fare well if McLaren get their act together and build their brand properly).

So, I think for those coming out of or considering going into a 430, the 12C would be preferable for many more of them than for the 458, meaning the lower supply of 12C will keep values above 430. Of course, for some only a Ferrari will do, but the huge difference in 430 supply and 12C supply should take care of that.

Overall, if my logic is correct you might assume that 12C will end up about midway between 430 and 458 over the next few years, meaning that the current gap to 458 will close a bit, in turn meaning that 12C might be a better performer than 458 from where it is currently. For those hoping the 458 takes a nosedive (McLaren v Ferrari tribalists!) I would be careful what you wish for because I think that would take 12C and 650 values with it. 458 is the clear market benchmark. If McLaren do well over the next few years that could change things because the supply of 12C is so limited - it is theoretically possible that 12C overtakes 458 purely by demand being able to more easily outstrip supply. Unlikely though and even more unlikely the way McLaren manage their brand with continual discounting.

The logic could apply in each market where the figures won't, so I can't really put a price on it for everyone, but for the UK, the 430 is about £80k, a three year old 458 is about £150k and a three year old 12C about £120k, source: PistonHeads (newer cars are worse - 2014 458 coupes are still advertised at £20k more than I paid for my new 2014 12C Spider a year ago).

The conclusion has to be that a late McLaren (650 for instance) will fall hard and fast unless bought with a big discount, which many now are being, but that earlier cars represent the best value of all (2011 to 2013 Coupe and early Spider).

All I. M. V. of course...

 

[ZombiePhysicist]

I think some of this will depend on how many 650S will be released and how different its successor will look. If they release more than 3500 before a refresh or the refresh looks P1'ish and more like the 650S, it could flood the market and it can also make the 12C seem more special.

What do you guys guess will be the total production run of 650S'? My guess is it will be more limited as 2015 will intro the P13 which will eat into production, making the 650S a bit more rare. I'm suspecting under 2000 total.

 

[texex91]

I think some of this will depend on how many 650S will be released and how different its successor will look. If they release more than 3500 before a refresh or the refresh looks P1'ish and more like the 650S, it could flood the market and it can also make the 12C seem more special.

What do you guys guess will be the total production run of 650S'? My guess is it will be more limited as 2015 will intro the P13 which will eat into production, making the 650S a bit more rare. I'm suspecting under 2000 total.

I agree 650S they are front loading, as they will need the capacity to build P13. 650's will certainly be harder to find once P13 production commences. McLaren knows this, and that's why the volume now. All of the armchair quarterbacks that are crying about too many being produced right now are not thinking ahead. 650S is awesome and have a stablemate like the P13 in portfolio will be brilliant.

 

[isv]

I agree 650S they are front loading, as they will need the capacity to build P13. 650's will certainly be harder to find once P13 production commences. McLaren knows this, and that's why the volume now. All of the armchair quarterbacks that are crying about too many being produced right now are not thinking ahead. .

Or perhaps some here who have been around a while and have seen cars over produced previously - just like it looks like the 650 is now....

Someone once said, the definition of insanity is doing the same thing again and expecting the outcome to be different. One hopes at least that Woking are aware of that.

It is clear even to a lot of us that cars have been and are being over produced. Given that, the factory cannot possibly not have realized that cars are being stacked up (again) and yet they continue to do so. The only conclusion one can draw then is that either it's part of the plan to do so all along (which perhaps isn't such a great plan) or they are constrained by supplier orders etc and simply cannot reduce production significantly as it would result in a larger overall financial impact.

 

[nh4]

I agree 650S they are front loading, as they will need the capacity to build P13. 650's will certainly be harder to find once P13 production commences. McLaren knows this, and that's why the volume now. All of the armchair quarterbacks that are crying about too many being produced right now are not thinking ahead. 650S is awesome and have a stablemate like the P13 in portfolio will be brilliant.

If McLaren are sticking to the plan discussed here a while ago, P13 production shouldn't have much impact on 650S capacity as P13 will utilize the line that is currently putting together P1. Once the P1 run is done, that line will be re-tooled for P13. There are also one (or was it two?) lines that are at the facility for future expansion, so if things go well with P13 McLaren should have the ability to keep P13 variants coming out at a good clip without impacting the 650S line.

-Jamie.

 

[texex91]

It is clear even to a lot of us that cars have been and are being over produced. Given that, the factory cannot possibly not have realized that cars are being stacked up (again) and yet they continue to do so.

Can you show proof of this 'stacking up' as I see large dealers have maybe a handful. Others are sold out. Show me a pic or proof (not conjecture) of this over producing of 650s. Possibly a picture of this mystery warehouse with cars stacked to the rafters LOL. Hear a lot of talking and theories--yet zero proof. Yes, big shock it's winter and some dealers slow--same with any brand.