With 'moochofun's' post below (http://www.mclarenlife.com/forums/m....com/forums/mclaren-mp4-12c/28402-mclaren-mp4-12c-buyer-s-guide.html#post639450), I'm adding a few pics so future buyers don't fall into the same "which IRIS" trap he did. If the seller is unsure, or you want further proof of which IRIS hardware version the car is equipped with, just compare a photo to the below. IRISv1 has recessed touch points on the buttons directly under the screen. IRISv2 has icons on these buttons, and no recessed touch points.

IRIS version 1:

IRIS version 2:

Pricing

Below is some information I've been tracking for the prices of used McLarens. The "Total" columns do count all models (12c / 650S / P1) and are counts based on what comes up off of cars.com. The price ranges have, thus far (as of April 18th, 2015) only picked up the 12c. This is purely informational and no more scientific than seeing what's on cars.com and counting things. It does not take anything like options, miles, or anything other than price into consideration.

 

I'm confused by this. I've seen some 2013 models with the IRIS with the indentations on the top two buttons.

 

I will add in further details when I get a bit more time, but for all those that have been posting to the individual threads helping folks that ask about buying a 12c, please comment with any info that you think would be beneficial for potential buyers.

Thanks,

-Jamie.

 

Good idea - but you might want edit the typo in the fifth word of your post, I always try and make to at least the sixth word before my first typo ( I don't always succeed).

 

Noted, fixed. I blame the iPad i'm typing on... And a lack of proofreading.

-Jamie.

 

Looking forward to seeing more info on this as I will *hopefully* be getting my first Mclaren in the coming weeks!

 

It might be a few weeks before I can get all the info in that I've got in my head as I'm currently out of town. If you need something before all this is filled in, browse through this section and you'll see a bunch of threads with many different questions answered. I'm hoping this thread will, over time, become the one place to consolidate all that info.

-Jamie.

 

Added some data. I know there is more that needs to go in that I'm just not thinking of right now. If you guys are reading this, please post or PM what I'm missing and I'll add it in.

-Jamie.

 

"If you are not allowed a drive .... get out" seems a little harsh, especially for buyers who are looking at cars being sold by individuals rather than dealers. I might take a buyer out for a ride, and I have no problem letting his licensed/bonded/insured mechanic test-drive the car as part of a PPI, but there's no way I'm letting some random dude drive my car before he buys it.

 

True. I was thinking more of cars for sale at non-McLaren dealers when I initially wrote that up. I amended the info there a bit.

Thanks for the feedback.

-Jamie.

 

Added link to Owner's Manual and IRIS docs in the "Things To Read" section... Thanks @Meekah.

-Jamie.

 

A few buying experiences/learnings from me from the start of the year:

Get the software and hardware updates recorded against the car from McLaren, don't believe what the dealer says without him looking at a print out. I fell foul of this as my dealer said my car had all the updates including the upgraded IRIS - I asked 'you mean the IRIS2' and they said 'yes'. The car didn't have it... Also the latest aero updates weren't there either.

Also if at a dealer/garage, ask to look underneath the car - pay particular attention to the fins around the wheels - they shouldn't be broken, they are not all like that! Also check for scuffs below the front splitter. An acceptable level of condition is up to you.

Try not to fall in love at first sight - the dealers can detect this instantly!

 

That sucks about the confusion over the IRIS hardware version. To help others I added some pics comparing v1 to v2.

-Jamie.

 

Added historical pricing info to post 2 above.

 

One tip I got from a dealer to find out whether a car has been frequently used on the track is to look carefully at the headlights. Under normal road use there should only be very few bumps and scratches (assuming it's not a 200.000+ miles car of course).

If however the car has been used on the track on a regular base the headlights will have significant scratches and bumps. Most often it is too expensive to replace the whole unit so it is left.

I know, this is not at all fool-proof, NOT AT ALL !! but at least one thing you could check and ask questions about.

 

I updated the pricing info for 2015 in post 2 above (http://www.mclarenlife.com/forums/m....com/forums/mclaren-mp4-12c/28402-mclaren-mp4-12c-buyer-s-guide.html#post613266).

So far in 2015 the data are certainly showing more cars coming to market and that prices are consolidating between 160k-180k USD and 200k-220k USD. This mostly seems to be the gap between coupes and spiders. As I put in post 2 above though, please bear in mind, "This is purely informational and no more scientific than seeing what's on cars.com and counting things. It does not take anything like options, miles, or anything other than price into consideration."

-Jamie.

 

Yep, wish i had seen this, i just bought a 2014 Spider, but it had the first Iris, a nightmare, booked into Ascot to have the upgrade next week, 2.800 quid..!

 

That is probably more than my car is worth.

No matter how much you paid for the car or how much you can afford it, that really is not a good introduction to McLaren.

Ascot is a great dealership though, hope the can erase the bad memories and make you enjoy the great car you have.

 

Yes, thanks Neil, it's a great car besides that, having said that I have only done 300 miles in it... Love the exclusivity, and it's made in the UK....

 

Enjoy! Are you coming to Supercar Sunday at Brooklands this weekend?

 

Hello all, I am new to these types of sites so I really do not know how it works, Is there any tutorial out there?? Anyway I have a 2014 12c Spider for a month now, Love the car, It has been at the Mclaren shop now for a week and nobody can figure out the problem. When you push the start button the windshield wiper moves up about 1" on the glass and stays there, So after 10 starts the windshield is half way up the glass, They sent videos to Mclaren and the said they never seen this happen in any car, There telling me they have to run a few more test and then may have to replace the whole brain out, Not ECU but the main computer. Has anyone experienced this before??

Thanks

 

Welcome to McLaren Electronics, a world of mystery and imagination. Actually, don't sweat the small stuff, I'm sure they'll figure it out eventually (sounds like maybe a glitch in the control module sending out a pulse to the wiper control when starting?). Focus on the big things in this car - power, comfort, handling, they're all best-in-class. Oh, and track the shit out of it at every opportunity and you'll soon learn to not care about the car's maddening electrical glitches!

 

I'd like to make a few comments after driving 1000 miles in my 2013 12C spider. I had a 2012 12C coupe that I traded in, both vehicles were pre-owned. Neither vehicle was purchased from a McLaren dealership. Both vehicles had remaining warranties at the time of purchase.

First. Paddle shifters.

Original car was VIN#300 - original Pre-Cog shifters that had some tension on the lever pull back. New spider does not. Impression. I prefer the newer version. Lighter action makes single hand shifting up and down easier. Speed of shifting is essentially unchanged. Newer paddle shifting gives a more responsive feel, making old shifters feel, mmm, analog. Final judgement, original Pre-Cog shifters, IMHO, are not a make or break option.

Second. Sport Exhaust.

Original vehicle had stock exhaust. New vehicle has the sports exhaust. Wow. Even with the top up, the exhaust note inside the vehicle is an improvement. With the spider top down, and the rear glass retracted, the sound is incredible. I would quote Jalopnik here "free flowing pipes expel exhaust gasses with a new timbre, the roar under power assaults your eardrums in the best way, with crackling overrun off-throttle as the cherry on top."

Third. Swipe doors.

I do miss them. Nuff said. Sniff.

 

I got a note that before 2013 the soft paints were Elite Paints and Special Paint was harder?

 

I think it was across the board. I remember McLaren changed their paint manufacturer from one company to another... Maybe some were more susceptible to damage than others just due to composition?

-Jamie.

 

This thread and perhaps the first post, should really address the potential issue with the Graziano gearbox, as my understanding is that failures continue to crop up even in the 650S variants.

To summarize to the best of my understanding, the gearbox may eventually have a faulty seal that is internal to the unit. The symptom is oil leakage under the car towards the back. The dealers are not authorized to open the gearbox unit, so the current fix is to replace the entire box. Out of warranty, this is circa 25-30 thousand USD.

I think we need to press mclaren to find out which units this affects, whether all or a subset of VIN. In my opinion, it is the single biggest risk to buying the car second hand and will likely be a drag on market value for ALL Graziano dct equipped cars (except P1 perhaps) until more clarity is determined.

Apols if I am restating known facts or have something inaccurate, eager to learn any new info, myself.

 

I think we need to press mclaren to find out which units this affects, whether all or a subset of VIN.
.

Too right 6th. Also, in the very least, they should have a considerably cheaper factory reconditioned option for owners, or still even better train the dealer techs how to change a gearbox seal - after all how hard can it be!?

These are Italian exotic car gearboxes though , so it could well come down to luck of the draw in the manufacturing process rather than a design flaw traceable to a certain VIN.

Best, Frank

 

It would be beneficial to know if it is related to a defect/batch, or is it more a wear and tear situation (i.e. all boxes will eventually fail). It seems more the former, since there are some very high mileage cars that haven't had it. But until more info is provided by mclaren, it seems it could potentially affect any Graziano DCT equipped car.

 

Based on the info in this thread I can conclude the image below shows an IRIS version 1. Correct? (2013 Spider)

 

Yes, that looks like IRIS 1

 

Thank you all for the information that you are handing down. I am currently looking for a car and all this information has been very helpful. I only have the question of how much the 12c and 650 will drop because of all the different models they are now producing and that McLaren does not have a great reputation for maintaining their value.

 

So, what I'm gathering is mechanically these cars are fairly bullet proof. Other than gearbox seals on some cars and the IRIS 1, these are great and reliable cars. Am I correct?

Do we have any idea what % of cars seem to have the gearbox problem? Also, what exactly are the IRIS issues, and do all 1's have them?

Thanks.

 

Most of the 12c cars out there have been mechanically pretty solid. I suppose the caveat there is that the sample is really with cars owned by McLife members though even if you hop to other forums the main complaints seem to be about IRIS or electronics.

I don't think we really know a % on gearbox failures but that also seems very low. I'm pretty sure we have less than 10 reported cases of it here on McLife. The main reason I mentioned it is (1) It's a catastrophic failure and (2) It's a pretty expensive repair bill should it happen to you outside of warranty.

With IRIS, the issues that caused the most heartache were all software related and more recent versions seem to have made that better for most people. The unit itself doesn't seem to have nearly as much memory as it should so many of the non-software issues seem to be with things taking longer than they should to come up.

If you were to buy a 12c I'd recommend extending the warranty even if it only buys you peace of mind. There's a thread going on in the 12c section about that. The IRIS software is updated with service visits so that part may be a bit less of a concern now that the software seems generally better.

-Jamie.

 

People make way too big a fuss over the IRIS stuff. I daily drive my 12C and IRIS 1 is fine. The Bluetooth integration sucks, you cannot stream music over it. But why would you want to talk on the phone anyway? Driving is my time, no phone calls allowed. The Nav on your phone is always going to be better than any car-based nav anyway.

The stereo system itself is excellent, and as long as you feed it high-quality source material (uncompressed music files stored on a small USB drive in the center storage compartment is definitely the way to go) it's a great system. If you try to feed it compressed, lossy source material it will sound like shit.

If you're looking for a used 12C I'd focus on the condition / color / options and not concern yourself with IRIS 1 vs. IRIS 2. You can always pay to upgrade from IRIS 1 to 2, but I never thought it was close to being worth it.

There have been only a handful (10?) gearbox failures mentioned on this forum, and those have mostly been low-mileage cars that didn't get enough use. When the car sits, the seals can dry out and fail.

In general, don't shy away from a car just because it has high mileage. These cars like being used. I bought mine with 11K on it and it has been basically trouble-free for over two years and another 14K miles.

 

Radio issues have never been a problem for me. Hell, I daily drove and F40 with no radio and a Challenge Stradale with the pathetic $2500 'Hi-fi' option. For me it's about the driving.

I produce a newsletter for our car community in Arizona and when the 12C came out the dealer gave me one to evaluate and write about. I thought it was brilliant, but I figured I'd wait a bit until some of the bugs surfaced and got sorted. If the software on the radio is the deal breaker in a car like this, maybe you should be BMW shopping! I don't think I turned the radio on when I evaluated the 12C.

It sounds like the gearbox challenges are few and far between. Probably allot less that the 996/997 IMS problem. I know someone that bought a California from a Ferrari dealer and 2 weeks later the gearbox gave up the ghost to the tune of $35K and Ferrari (in perfect character) told him to get stuffed. He found a gearbox from a wreck for $10K and of course it wouldn't work until it had a magic wand waved over it by Ferrari's proprietary computer to mate everything together. I think there was an obscene charge for 30 mins on that computer.

 

Hi Medin, I know your post was late last year but I was wondering if you were still looking for a car? If so I may be able to help

 

List of Common 12C/625C/650C problems and issues to have checked/fixed before buying

I've moved this list from here (http://www.mclarenlife.com/forums/m...orums/mclaren-mp4-12c/56281-asking-dealer-fix-all-known-issues.html#post1153249) to this buyer's guide thread as it makes more sense here.

I'm trying to list these from most common to least. Most if not all of these should have been taken care of under warranty for most owners. Here's a first cut; hopefully a good starting point. If I got anything wrong or we need to add more, I we can adjust over time:

More common

• Horn assembly replacement. Your horn may not work too great, not sure if this had to do with the airbag as well. Most cars had this replaced under warranty and maybe without the owner noticing as part of their service.
• Door misadjusted. Owners experience either that the doors allow in wind noise or require slamming to close. This is particularly so for 2012, by 2014, the doors seem to close fine. Dealer can adjust this, but it’s a super fine balancing act between wind noise or slamming the door (you may have to pick your poison). One solution is to get the soft close door option.
• Windshield seal flapping loose. Other seals on trunk and window might come up, but less frequently.
• HVAC LCD Panels going dim. (Permanent fix replacement part came out late 2015)
• Turbo hose clamps go undone. Get engine warning, maybe limp mode. (Campaign came out to replace these around 201X)
• Headlight/taillight fogging. Headlights considered aesthetic and not covered by warranty unless you beg/plead. (Taillight permeant fix available as of late 2015). Headlight issues limited to 12C as this was solved with 625/650. Taillights apply to both.
• IRIS touch screen non-responsive. You find part of the screen or all of it requires smearing of your finger to register touches or won’t register at all. Requires replacement.
• Hyperactive passenger seat seatbelt sensor. If you put something light and warm on the passenger seat, like a phone, the seatbelt sensor will go off. No known fix (other than put your phone on a jacket on the seat, or put your phone somewhere else). Some have said that an upcoming software update might fix this. Others report a replacement mat for the sensor can make it work better.
• Center speaker grill fogging windshield. You get fogging from the air conditioner on your windshield coming from the center speaker grill. Dealers usually put in a foam or like insert to block it and prevent the fogging.
• Intake Sound Generator (ISG) dying/drying out. This happens over time and is considered wear/tear. It's possible to have this plugged up to avoid it in the future.
• Water inside doors after rain. This usually just drains after rainy drive, but make sure you don't hear water sloshing around beyond a rain day.
• Key FOB not found. Most commonly happens when battery in the key FOB is growing weak. Put the key on the little ledge behind the center console in front of the cup holders for it to be found. If it still doesn't work, take the key FOB away from the car while the car is off for 20 minutes, and come back and try again; make sure you have no laptops/cellphones/other key fobs around the car or key fob as they may be interfering. In some cases, the key FOB itself may be messed up and mclaren may replace them. In rare cases, a transmitter/receiver for the key FOB in the car may be messed up and mclaren may need to replace it.
• Torn/broken tyre/tire spoilers and guide vanes. These little aero bits of plastic on the under carriage of your car. The tyre spoilers are in front of the front tires, and often get ripped off when going over speed bumps and such. The guide vanes direct air out under the car and are behind the front wheels, the tend to 'crunch' and break when going over speed bumps too. Luckily these parts are cheap to replace (around $85). One thing to note, is when you break off the tyre spoilers going slow, sometimes they can tear what is called as the 'floor' under the front lip. That floor costs around $1200 to replace, which is a huge bummer. Some have reported putting on tyre spoilers from the 650s reduces the scraping and breakage. Not clear that the 650s aero bits work the same. Then again, from what I heard, the tyre spoilers really don't do much until you get over 165mph.

Not too common

• Windshield stress fracture. Earlier models may have had a windshield that wasn't perfectly set, and a stress fracture can develop from the top of the glass down. Most of these were replaced under warranty.
• Suspension failure PCC. Most times this is a sensor fault and just turning the car on/off (sometimes for 30 minutes) will clear the error. Sometimes it’s a failed sensor. More rarely, or perhaps with more useage/miles, there is some fluid coming out of the system, hydraulic leaks with sometimes failed accumulators, and it needs to be repaired/replaced. The ride in 'normal' may feel lest soft if this is happening, and such a fix is covered by warranty.
• Paint bubbling around rear pillars. Small batch of 2012s had this, most affected should have been fixed under warranty by now.
• Door/Trunk/Window seals dry rotting. Self explanatory.
• Mesh grill rusting. intakes and by the rear pillars, the metal mesh can rust. Needs to be repainted.
• Coolant leaks. Drops that progressively turn into puddles. Needs better cap and clamp replacement.
• Rusted bolts and water in wing and brake discs. The bolts by the wing and/or brake assembly can get rusty in the right environment. They need to be replaced.
• Wheel liners felt develops hole. Some people report wheel liner felt wearing through when they put on non-manufacturer specified tires (e.g., Michelin Pilot Cup 2s) and when they track their car; this becomes part of the expense for using non-standard tires and tracking and spacers are understood to lesson/eliminate this issue. Some more rarely account wheel liners falling when driving in rain; the dealer should fix this under warranty.
• Water pump/assembly. May leak. Requires replacement.

Somewhat rare

• Gas lid release breaks. Infrequent, but horrendous when it happens. Check it.
• Rim clear coat peeling. on OEM rims, patches coming off
• Paint defects. Fading on roof and doors
• Caliper paint dulling. This may be due to wear and tear, but paint can dull/rub off.
• Transmission dies. You see oil leaks, and or get a transmission error. Often, but not always, happens to cars not frequently driven and experience dry seals.
• Cylinder head defect. Coolant from a bad hose clamp leaks on to the motor and eventually damages the cylinder head. Likely requires new engine.
• Motor mount. Bolt loosened over time needs to be adjusted

Annual Service Costs (vary by market/region, and below are the rough averages)

• 1st year. About $1500US.
• 2nd year. About $2500US.
• 3rd year. About $2000US.
• 4th+ year. <acronym title="To be discussed"><acronym title="To be discussed"><acronym title="To be discussed">TBD</acronym></acronym></acronym>

Posts about Warranty
PDF of Warranty
http://www.mclarenlife.com/forums/mclaren-mp4-12c/36737-mclaren-extended-warranty.html#post794625

Thread on pricing
http://www.mclarenlife.com/forums/m...forums/mclaren-mp4-12c/42322-mclaren-extended-warranty-pricing.html#post1052329

Thread on differences between three different types of available warranties: (1) Factory Warranty, (2) Qualified/Certified Pre-Owned (CPO) Warranty, and (3) Extended Warranty
http://www.mclarenlife.com/forums/mclaren-mp4-12c/41706-tips-purchasing-out-state.html#post888578

Thread on availability of up to ~12yr duration of extended warranty
http://www.mclarenlife.com/forums/mp4-12c/62722-10-years-warranty.html#post1250826

Posts about Warranty

 

Could someone post a list of options available on the 12c?
Other than the IRIS 2 upgrade and alcantara interior inserts.
Thank you!

 

Could someone post a list of options available on the 12c?

http://www.mclarenlife.com/forums/m...p4-12c/23281-2012-car-options-where-can-i-find-description-each.html#post499825