[Mycroft]

Will it be a subjective assessment or an objective one? I fear that an objective one would lead to people waking up next to a horse's head if the LaFerrari were to lose.

 

[Andrew-A]

I wasn't aware of Ferraris media manipulation before i bought my McLaren - you have to give it to them for doing such a great job! But i guess they have to do it to preserve the brand image and residuals - so as a business plan, you cant fault them. I wish our lot were a bit like that.

 

[Gerald]

I wasn't aware of Ferraris media manipulation before i bought my McLaren - you have to give it to them for doing such a great job! But i guess they have to do it to preserve the brand image and residuals - so as a business plan, you cant fault them. I wish our lot were a bit like that.

I don't wish anyone was like that but, yeah I do get your drift.

 

[Vindaloo]

http://www.topgear.com/uk/photos/la...otos/laferrari-vs-mclaren-p1-vs-porsche-918-spyder-the-final-verdict-2014-11-14

verdict part 1 of 3

 

[JFPW3097]

No surprises the Ferrari won that Kidding.
But i get the feeling that all three are going to win, Ferrari won part 1 in the journalists opinion, so won't surprise me if the 918 wins the next and P1 after. Just to keep people happy.

 

[ltitus8900]

Sort of kills the drama of who will be named the victor doesn't it?!?!?

-Jamie.

Unfortunately yes.

 

[treynor]

It's looking like a LaFerrari sweep, with the P1 coming in 2nd and the 918 last based on the comments. The 918 seems to win the "car I'd drive every day, especially in the rain" choice.

Interesting...

 

[NVMcLaren]

It's looking like a LaFerrari sweep, with the P1 coming in 2nd and the 918 last based on the comments. The 918 seems to win the "car I'd drive every day, especially in the rain" choice.

Interesting...

Haven't really followed the debate, mostly because I'm usually going the opposite direction of everyone else and B -- I don't care --- but, its no suprise really. I knew years ago the ferrari will be the instant winner no matter what. And in all due respect its an amazing car no matter how you slice it. Fair enough. So that leaves 2 & 3. And honestly I would expect the 2 position to go to porsche, because the masses look for something easier to get into, easier to service, more comfortable, easier to go fast. But again thats not me. I prefer the feel of a lightweight RWD racing car, which is the P1. Compared to the porsche its the harder but more rewarding car to drive.

 

[JFPW3097]

I just can never believe an article if a Ferrari wins. Really struggle to believe there is no bias or manipulation in play given past events, and it really spoils comparisons. Not to mention if you're constantly calling that, especially in the 12C/650S vs 458/Speciale or P1 vs 918 vs LaF debates and comparisons, it makes your look very bias, or against Ferrari.\

As a side note, the second part from Marriage is a pretty poor right up in my opinion.

 

[IntegrityExports]

"But if it's the McLaren that stays with me, it's the Ferrari that feels so much richer as an experience when you're behind the wheel."

So, of the three, the P1 is the one the sticks in the mind because it is so good when you drive it, so the Ferrari wins because it is better to drive. What?!?

It's writing (and logic) like that which makes a mockery of this being called any sort of "test". An more honest statement would be, "They are all different and I just happen to prefer the Ferrari"? Why not just say this is a road trip enjoying the current crop of hypercars?

The only moderately meaningful answer will be if (when) the Stig gets to track each of them on the same day. That alone will give some kind of semi-objective information, but this "This one is best because I like it" is pretty pointless.

 

[Mark ANTAR]

"But if it's the McLaren that stays with me, it's the Ferrari that feels so much richer as an experience when you're behind the wheel."

So, of the three, the P1 is the one the sticks in the mind because it is so good when you drive it, so the Ferrari wins because it is better to drive. What?!?

It's writing (and logic) like that which makes a mockery of this being called any sort of "test". An more honest statement would be, "They are all different and I just happen to prefer the Ferrari"? Why not just say this is a road trip enjoying the current crop of hypercars?

The only moderately meaningful answer will be if (when) the Stig gets to track each of them on the same day. That alone will give some kind of semi-objective information, but this "This one is best because I like it" is pretty pointless.

+1

And thought this would be relevant to this thread. Just read it on German Car Forums. lol

TopGear will air the 918 segment mid November because Ferrari is not allowing any testing of the LaFerrari. Reason is that the LaFerrari weighs 1,675kg!!! A LaFerrari owner weighed his car (can't disclose the name) and was shocked at how much it weighed. Basically Ferrari has a test embargo for all LaFerrari testing.

Porsche calculated that the 918 is about 0.8 sec faster on the top gear track than LaFerrari. The 918 also set the record for the top gear track and small Le Mans track.

Well guys it is true. 1675kg for LaFerrari. I believe this is with driver but not completely topped fluids. The weight is also the reason why Ferrari has not (and will not) let anybody test it.

The poster is highly knowledgeable and has some connections from within Porsche.

http://www.germancarforum.com/threads/porsche-918-spyder.49588/page-41

 

[scottishxj220]

Maybe someone can correct me if I am wrong. On their website, Ferrari still gives no exact figures on acceleration and and apparently NO weight for the LaFerrari on their website. If any other car-maker did this they would get called out.

I know I should expect this but I still think it is a poor show that they cannot be honest about these things and really puts me off the brand in general.

 

[Mycroft]

Doesn't surprise me, I've never seen anything to convince me of LaF's 15s 0-300kph yet and I've seen a lot that convinces me otherwise. Besides that, I was always surprised at how the LaF could be 100kg lighter than a P1 and yet have a 6.3L V12 as opposed to a smaller 3.8L V8. The simple answer was always that it couldn't.

Has anyone weighed a P1?

 

[Tuxiemama]

There is no way a Laugher F70 LaF is doing 0-300 kmh in 15 seconds, maybe 17.5-18.5 with everything perfect and I mean perfect (vbox measured)

For the sake of accuracy

JoeTwinT had the 230+ mph EVOMS Porsche did 0-300 kmh in 14.1 seconds with 1500 bhp (vbox)
Tim941NYC 0-300 kmh with around 1600 bhp was under 14 s (vbox)
Agera R with uber straight line aero dynamics = 14.5 s and 1124 bhp and only 3200 lbs or so

I should add that a USA based LaF was weighed with fluids and 1/2 tank of gas (EU curb weight) at over 1600 kgs recently.. This is the car for sale I believe by some software exec

 

[unotaz]

So to summarize from Top Gear's "subjective" verdict:

Tom Ford:
1. LaFerrari
2. Porsche 918
3. McLaren P1

Charlie Turner:
1. LaFerrari
2. Porsche 918
3. McLaren P1

Ollie Marriage:
1. LaFerrari
2. McLaren P1
3. Porsche 918

Overall Ranking:
1. LaFerrari (1st, 1st, 1st)
2. Porsche 918 (2nd, 2nd, 3rd)
3. Mclaren P1 (3rd, 3rd, 2nd)

 

[JFPW3097]

If this weight thing is true then the weight of each of the cars with fluids, half a tank and no driver should look somewhat like this:

McLaren P1: 1,500kg
LaFerrari: 1,600kg
Porche 918: 1,635kg (Weissach)

That's what i am picking up from previous and new sources. McLaren P1 was weighed a while back at Pagani, some may recall. Turned out to be 1,575kg with half a tank, full fluids and a 70kg driver. With the information from Mark, and Porsche stats for the kerb weight of the 918, those figures shouldn't be miles off.

Power to weight ratios for the LaFerrari will have changed drastically from before, if all is true.

McLaren P1: 602bhp/tonne
LaFerrari: 594bhp/tonne
Porche 918: 535bhp/tonne

 

[JFPW3097]

So to summarize from Top Gear's "subjective" verdict:

Tom Ford:
1. LaFerrari
2. Porsche 918
3. McLaren P1

Charlie Turner:
1. LaFerrari
2. Porsche 918
3. McLaren P1

Ollie Marriage:
1. LaFerrari
2. McLaren P1
3. Porsche 918

Overall Ranking:
1. LaFerrari (1st, 1st, 1st)
2. Porsche 918 (2nd, 2nd, 3rd)
3. Mclaren P1 (3rd, 3rd, 2nd)

Funny how the first comparison that the LaFerrari has been in against the other two, it comes out on top. What's funnier is the fact that Ferrari think everybody is stupid and cannot see through their 'game'. Got to hand it to them though, they do a good job with this propaganda stuff as i think most people still believe it.

 

[scottishxj220]

'A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to get its pants on.' - [apparently] Churchill.

In the digital age, all you have to do is shout loud enough and it will become 'true' soon enough. It helps it you surround yourself with a fleet of journalists that fall over themselves to pander to you just to access your product.

I have no doubt that the LaF is superb product but even the most hardline tifosi should agree that the product should be able to stand alone without prior set up and a support team. Particularly when it comes to production cars on impartial tests. It is understandable for a manufacturer to support prototypes but that is because they are not the finished article and may need babying or adjusting.

Ferrari's reluctance to allow their flagship car to go-it-alone on comparison tests, and their ambiguity over even the most basic of car statistics, merely demonstrates their lack of faith in their product.

 

[Streetrod]

Ok folks another comparison coming soon from Car magazine:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2xyUchokYEQ

 

[Topspeed]

Funny it's in Italy. I wonder why...

'A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to get its pants on.' - [apparently] Churchill.

In the digital age, all you have to do is shout loud enough and it will become 'true' soon enough. It helps it you surround yourself with a fleet of journalists that fall over themselves to pander to you just to access your product.

I have no doubt that the LaF is superb product but even the most hardline tifosi should agree that the product should be able to stand alone without prior set up and a support team. Particularly when it comes to production cars on impartial tests. It is understandable for a manufacturer to support prototypes but that is because they are not the finished article and may need babying or adjusting.

Ferrari's reluctance to allow their flagship car to go-it-alone on comparison tests, and their ambiguity over even the most basic of car statistics, merely demonstrates their lack of faith in their product.

Very well said. I agree 100%.