Is this the true spiritual successor to the F1? v-12 central driving position.... https://www.motorauthority.com/news...gordon-murrays-mclaren-f1-successor-to-boast-v-12-power-and-manual-transmission
Gordon Murray (T.50) new super car
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qvpower
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Spierling uses fan in completely different way, that would be impractical and down right dangerous for a raod car.
T50 uses fan for boundary layer control.
S1 LM is a step backwards, no you're stuck with a constant downforce and can't bleed it of at higher speeds, you're forced to use stiff springs, that would suck at lower speeds on a regular roads. GM himself explained all that.
If you intended to use S1 LM on track mainly then it's fine...
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1,195 Posts
I'm aware of how both fan systems work, but I don't consider the T50 system adds enough. Agree that the new model can't bleed off downforce, which is a valid criticism. I'd have preferred active aero. My point is only that the T50 fan system is more gimmick than anything. We can agree to disagree
Anyway, my opinion doesn't really matter, as I'm not a buyer for any of these.
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89 Posts
Fan is not a gimmick, it serves it's purpose.
Gives stability to wingless car + some other benefits.
If GM made T50 without a fan, then it would ended up same as the OG F1 (which btw has 2 small fans, even more gimmicky) 😀 F1 suffered high speed stability, because it had almost zero downforce, it was properly scary at top end, described by Andy Wallace and some others who dared to stretch it's legs. It was never designed as a top speed car period. Fan fixed this negative trait.
Gives stability to wingless car + some other benefits.
If GM made T50 without a fan, then it would ended up same as the OG F1 (which btw has 2 small fans, even more gimmicky) 😀 F1 suffered high speed stability, because it had almost zero downforce, it was properly scary at top end, described by Andy Wallace and some others who dared to stretch it's legs. It was never designed as a top speed car period. Fan fixed this negative trait.
no fans on the T33
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1,277 Posts
I’ve never given info that wasn’t true when given. Wanna see the directive from the ‘top’ for the 750 when it was introduced? 18-24 months limited production. But…myself, nor the now ex-CEO can predict the future…particularly when the company gets bought out, which is what changed the whole program. Many new people at McLaren right now…and a lot of positive discussions being had, because they know the current situation isn’t sustainable. 750 production will be cut back for ‘26…so they aren’t just sitting on lots.
There will be NO more LT cars for the current 7-series generation. You can comment a million times and put as many smiley emojis as you want but there will NOT be an LT. Wager?
There will be a final edition…likely an HS type variant with more power and limited numbers. I’d allude to how many but then I’d just get another laughing emoji.
You can choose to laugh at this too…100% there will be a McLaren EV SUV…in the range of 600hp+, and well under the GTS price point. Think ‘roughly’ RSQ8 price point.
Another incredibly limited but cool F1 ‘mark II’…but I won’t comment more on that because what the heck do I know…a more ‘pure’ version than GMA.
What will the 7 series full replacement be? 🤔 All I’ll say is…it’s gonna be awesome. Why? Because the brand is actually listening to customers and very in tune with the industry and what’s working and what isn’t. Other than the EV suv…New ownership ‘seems’ like they really ‘get it’ and are willing to spend the money to do things right. Gonna give them a chance to make good on their future vision…because IF executed properly no one will offer what McLaren offers…
Hell yeah. Thanks for the intel. That sounds crazy, especially the price point of the SUV. Really excited for the 7 series replacement
Did they not learn from the sports series?
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16,995 Posts
Obviously not because they still make two of them, they just changed the name.
Gordon Murray Special Vehicles Has 12 Projects Already In The Pipeline
Four of those undertakings are reportedly coming soon.
carbuzz.com
Seems the way to go for those brands, ultra high end of the market, bespoke cars, 1 of 1 and insane prices. Good for them, they keep the dream’s alive.Gordon Murray Special Vehicles Has 12 Projects Already In The Pipeline
Four of those undertakings are reportedly coming soon.
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2,703 Posts
T.33 has less downforce, a slower top speed, and will have less range because it doesn't have the fan. It will also ride rougher at higher Autobahn speeds.
Then you look at the S1 LM and GTR which have to be much lower to get the downforce from the floor. Great for track but terrible for road day in and day out use
I dont understand the basis for any of your claims, besides that the T33 has less downforce. neither the T33 or the T50 are exactly downforce cars,
not sure what the fan will have to do with range? Slightly detuned engine so should have significantly better fuel economy from that as well as no energy hogging fan. the T33 has a 75l tank vs 80l for the T50, I'll bet that that fuel economy advantage > 5l tank differece.
the fan can supposedly reduce drag by 12.5% if needed, presumably that means less downforce, so would allow them to have softer springs on the T50 than without the fan, if that means they have softer springs than then T33 I dont know. A lower downforce car should be able to deal with softer springs period. So again i dont understand your basis for saying it will be rougher at autobahn speeds?
as to the S1LM and GTR, you are saying a more focused cars leads to compromises on road comfort? who could have guessed.
1) i beleive you on the 750 production run, as you said, things change.. If you would have asked ferrari whether they were going to do another non-hybrid after the 488, they would have said no, the next one will be hybrid until they launched the F8...
that price point on a rebadged NIO SUV (?) is low. i would have assumed it would be more in the fully loaded DBX/Urus range, even if not in the pureinsanty price range
And Mclaren really does have to make something more than 15 versions of the same car, midengined carbontubbed 2 seater to survive
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Streamline mode from the fan reduces drag.
Engine alone, T.33 makes more power down low, so it would have higher consumption at cruising use.
We are talking about the fan. Without it, you be a lower car to get the floor to work better. With a lower car, your road usage is compromised. This isn't rocket science. Without the fan you can't bleed off downforce, meaning you have to run stiffer springs.
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You can do it with active aero as well. I'd rather have a fan than a wing though, assuming the efficiency is similar.
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You won't eliminate the form drag of a wing, even at lower AOA. Efficiency fundamentally will be worse
you are right it isnt rocket science. i'm not disputing that the drag, cant be lowered with the fan and that wouldnt reduce drag and thus increase range.
but you said the range would be better on the T50 vs the t33, which i think is just plain wrong. not rocket science as you said.
the T33 has less drag to start with and much better fuel economy, thus better range. More power at lower revs usually means better fuel economy.
you correctly point out that the T33 has less downforce, and most likely then less drag
you correctly point out that the T33 engine makes more power at lower revs, thus better fuel economy
and then you take these two points to make the assertion that the T50 will have better range. i just dont see how what you say, supports that view. if anyhting you have made the case for why the T33 will have better range
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Finally giving you the shout out and credit you deserve for bringing this to our attention before the reveal. Some are quoting $11m, but is it really 11m GBP which with current exchange rates is about $15m?
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