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What's your net worth (denominated roughly in USD (k in 1000s, M in 1,000,000s and B in 3 commas!))?

  • 0-499k

  • 500k-999k

  • 1M-1.999M

  • 2M-4.999M

  • 5M-9.999M

  • 10M-19.999M

  • 20M-49.999M

  • 50M-99.999M

  • 100M-199M

  • 200M-499M

  • 500M-999M

  • 1B-1.999B (3 commas baby!)

  • 2B-4.999B

  • 5B-9.999B

  • 10B-19.999B

  • 20B-49.999B

  • 50B-99.999B

  • 100+B (so you're Elon Musk, Bezos, Gates, etc.)

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I think you might be wrong about the 0-499k voters.
agree. There are a lot of different circumstances in that category, including folks who don’t consider their house and retirement accounts as “real” net worth, folks who are making a very large amount of money each year but just paid off their school debt or mortgage, or folks who simply have only recently leveled up on the income scale.
 

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I think you might be wrong about the 0-499k voters. First, people lease and buy used, and with lower end 12Cs selling under 100k at times, this becomes attainable. Second, there is the concept of HENRYs (High Earners Not Rich Yet) that can afford the payments, but have not established a high net worth yet. But yea, some may not have a car too.
What's a "payment"?

I posit that those in the 0-499k who squander their money on an expensive and steeply depreciating asset at this stage in their life will never be rich. Especially if they're "making payments".
 

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What's a "payment"?

I posit that those in the 0-499k who squander their money on an expensive and steeply depreciating asset at this stage in their life will never be rich. Especially if they're "making payments".
Right. I was a Henry when I was young, then I switched from spending money on cars to investing in the stock market, which has enabled me to get back to my earlier folly.
 
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What's a "payment"?

I posit that those in the 0-499k who squander their money on an expensive and steeply depreciating asset at this stage in their life will never be rich. Especially if they're "making payments".
Some consider rich in dollars and cents (which can easily be taken away or significantly reduced) while others spend the money to be rich in experience which can never be taken away. I experience now because I could be not able to do it tomorrow. I won't be another Benny Hill.
 
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Discussion Starter · #225 ·
Some consider rich in dollars and cents (which can easily be taken away or significantly reduced) while others spend the money to be rich in experience which can never be taken away. I experience now because I could be not able to do it tomorrow. I won't be another Benny Hill.
Benny Hill? He seemed to experience a heck of a lot. I only watched his show when I was a kid, so I might be assuming he had more of an exciting fun life than he did. Did his life contrast from his show that much that he was some kind of hermit or something?
 
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Benny Hill? He seemed to experience a heck of a lot. I only watched his show when I was a kid, so I might be assuming he had more of an exciting fun life than he did. Did his life contrast from his show that much that he was some kind of hermit or something?
He never spent any of his money, lived barebones, and after he retired he hoarded royalty checks. He had millions in the bank and lived in a tiny apartment with a table, couch, and bed. He left it to nobody, and never spent it his whole life.
 

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Discussion Starter · #227 ·
He never spent any of his money, lived barebones, and after he retired he hoarded royalty checks. He had millions in the bank and lived in a tiny apartment with a table, couch, and bed. He left it to nobody, and never spent it his whole life.
Never new that. Super interesting. Wonder why? To each his own I suppose. But I'm of the mind there is some reasonable balance of being fiscally prudent, and whimsically impractical. Somewhere between there is the 'good life' I think, for me at least

As always, YMMV.
 

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What's a "payment"?

I posit that those in the 0-499k who squander their money on an expensive and steeply depreciating asset at this stage in their life will never be rich. Especially if they're "making payments".
this misses the nuance of their costs and other financial goals. Live in a low cost of living area with cheap housing ? low taxes ? No kids ? Dual income no kids ? Are cars your primary hobby, or are you spending money on other luxuries ?

There are folks making $400k A YEAR who are strapped. Bought too much house, insist their precious babies need private school, high tax jurisdiction. It’s easy to burn through a ton of income between taxes and keeping up with the Joneses

On the other hand, $400k a year no kids and a reasonable housing situation … you can buy McLarens all day long if that’s your passion.

Folks without a large amount of assets should be saving. No argument there. But a used 720 can be had for about $270k, and a monthly around $3700. $45k a year. On $400k paying roughly 40% in taxes still leaves $195,000 per year after the car. Spend another $4k on rent, and you could easily be saving $100k a year, plus employer matching
 

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this misses the nuance of their costs and other financial goals. Live in a low cost of living area with cheap housing ? low taxes ? No kids ? Dual income no kids ? Are cars your primary hobby, or are you spending money on other luxuries ?

There are folks making $400k A YEAR who are strapped. Bought too much house, insist their precious babies need private school, high tax jurisdiction. It’s easy to burn through a ton of income between taxes and keeping up with the Joneses

On the other hand, $400k a year no kids and a reasonable housing situation … you can buy McLarens all day long if that’s your passion.

Folks without a large amount of assets should be saving. No argument there. But a used 720 can be had for about $270k, and a monthly around $3700. $45k a year. On $400k paying roughly 40% in taxes still leaves $195,000 per year after the car. Spend another $4k on rent, and you could easily be saving $100k a year, plus employer matching
This! I financed my car since I got a 0.9% Interest rate at my local credit union. Fortunate enough to walk in and walk out with a loan. I don't mind financing my toys, especially if you are investing six figures a year in investments...use opm.
 

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I think as with anything, real world value in cars is not indicative to ownership value.

No one would be buying houses using mortgages if we looked at things purely from a cash value perspective. Ignoring the fact a mortgage is a ultimately supposed to have an ending point, it is practically the same as buying a 2million house for 2.5 or 2.8million.

Obviously we don't see it like that, instead we admit that real world value is nothing compared to what it is worth to you.

Whilst some feel spending money on a car is a silly thing to do, I still feel outright purchase of supercars to be more agreeable than having a mortgage.

I agree that the car should make be 10-20x less than your net worth in terms of financing, however I personally cannot shake the hate I have for mortgages and the brainwashed masses who treat it almost as a non-debt let alone one with ZERO cost.

Supercar ownership comes with so much scrutiny compared with others. Maybe with things like PCP existing, that could be argued as fair, but I just don't believe the value of owning these cars is just the price tag
 

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What's a "payment"?

I posit that those in the 0-499k who squander their money on an expensive and steeply depreciating asset at this stage in their life will never be rich. Especially if they're "making payments".
I know folks who make $300-400k+ a year, maybe have $500k in assets (early in their careers), and have a $1500-2000 car payment for an exotic. At 2-3% interest, I see nothing wrong with that, especially when it's your passion/hobby. Exotic car ownership can also be an excellent networking tool.
 
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Exotic car ownership can also be an excellent networking tool.
I've made more money because I bought one, and met people lining me up to make more in the future as a result.
 

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I haven't read through the entire thread...

What's so difficult about buying a $100K-$160K car. Millions of people in USA can easily afford that (basically 12c/570/650 used prices).

Home equity lines of credit, investment lines of credit - interest payment only and its like $6K/year. This is the way to take out and use money without income tax consequences when a person is alive.

About the kids and inheritance... Parents housing/investments get a stepped up cost basis when they die and kids take over and sell with no capital gains tax and sitting on a pile of cash to do whatever they want with it. There's people by my way that have lived in their houses for 30 years and doing regular jobs and homes are $3 million or so. They can tap into that home equity line of credit if they wish. They won't sell the home due to capital gains but will then pass onto the kids when they die and kids get the $3 million tax free. (median home price in entire SanFrancisco Bay Area is $1.4 million and that is across 2.5 million households.

Sales people will tell you that many "cash buyers" are tapping into heloc.

The internet at large seems to think people who own these cars are at the top of the $$$ food chain or something...
 

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I haven't read through the entire thread...

What's so difficult about buying a $100K-$160K car. Millions of people in USA can easily afford that (basically 12c/570/650 used prices).

Home equity lines of credit, investment lines of credit - interest payment only and its like $6K/year. This is the way to take out and use money without income tax consequences when a person is alive.

About the kids and inheritance... Parents housing/investments get a stepped up cost basis when they die and kids take over and sell with no capital gains tax and sitting on a pile of cash to do whatever they want with it. There's people by my way that have lived in their houses for 30 years and doing regular jobs and homes are $3 million or so. They can tap into that home equity line of credit if they wish. They won't sell the home due to capital gains but will then pass onto the kids when they die and kids get the $3 million tax free. (median home price in entire SanFrancisco Bay Area is $1.4 million and that is across 2.5 million households.

Sales people will tell you that many "cash buyers" are tapping into heloc.

The internet at large seems to think people who own these cars are at the top of the $$$ food chain or something...
$6k/year is $500/month. Where are you finding a $160k loan for $500/month, because sign me up!
 

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I haven't read through the entire thread...

What's so difficult about buying a $100K-$160K car. Millions of people in USA can easily afford that (basically 12c/570/650 used prices).

Home equity lines of credit, investment lines of credit - interest payment only and its like $6K/year. This is the way to take out and use money without income tax consequences when a person is alive.

About the kids and inheritance... Parents housing/investments get a stepped up cost basis when they die and kids take over and sell with no capital gains tax and sitting on a pile of cash to do whatever they want with it. There's people by my way that have lived in their houses for 30 years and doing regular jobs and homes are $3 million or so. They can tap into that home equity line of credit if they wish. They won't sell the home due to capital gains but will then pass onto the kids when they die and kids get the $3 million tax free. (median home price in entire SanFrancisco Bay Area is $1.4 million and that is across 2.5 million households.

Sales people will tell you that many "cash buyers" are tapping into heloc.

The internet at large seems to think people who own these cars are at the top of the $$$ food chain or something...
This is what I was saying. There are many people who can afford a car but who don't buy for other reasons. It requires a mental leap to do it.

That said, just because someone is sitting in a $3m house doesn't mean they can simply get a home equity loan for a car because they still need sufficient liquidity to make the payments.
 

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This is what I was saying. There are many people who can afford a car but who don't buy for other reasons. It requires a mental leap to do it.

That said, just because someone is sitting in a $3m house doesn't mean they can simply get a home equity loan for a car because they still need sufficient liquidity to make the payments.
I can't say for Home Equity Line of credit because I don't have one.

For investment lines of credit; interest payment just rolls into the principal balance. You don't ever have to make any payment.
 
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$6k/year is $500/month. Where are you finding a $160k loan for $500/month, because sign me up!
Sometimes you'll read an article where it will state that billionnaires don't pay income taxes... A big reason is they don't sell their stocks/securities. They don't want to pay the taxes associated with the sales. They just use the investment lines of credit against their stocks and use that to live or buy other things... However, many people with much smaller balances (regular folks) can also use this and they do use it to get money out without paying taxes during their lifetime. Its how people will live in retirement until they die and then kids get whatever is left tax free. It's why you shouldn't incur capital gains in your lifetime and use things like HELOC and investment lines of credit at attractive interest rates.
 

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Sometimes you'll read an article where it will state that billionnaires don't pay income taxes... A big reason is they don't sell their stocks/securities. They don't want to pay the taxes associated with the sales. They just use the investment lines of credit against their stocks and use that to live or buy other things... However, many people with much smaller balances (regular folks) can also use this and they do use it to get money out without paying taxes during their lifetime. Its how people will live in retirement until they die and then kids get whatever is left tax free. It's why you shouldn't incur capital gains in your lifetime and use things like HELOC and investment lines of credit at attractive interest rates.
Gotcha. I have very little investments (only started last year at 44 years old), so I guess that won’t apply to me. I’ll look into HELOC though, as I do have a good amount of equity in my home, but my mortgage to income ratio is pushing it, so I don’t know if I would get approved.
 
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