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If I was running the show here's what I would like to seen be done in R&D and released to the customer. I'll add to this list as I think of more important upgrades. Comments welcome. Factory please consider!

1. Reduce the door closing resistance.
2. Increase the opening height of the door. Im 6' tall and its awkard.
3. Lower the obstruction height of the lower door sill.
4. Use remote controlled valves in the exhaust system for user control of the exhaust volume.
5. Investigate the use of a LSD.
6. Investigate the use of lowering the suspension for track use by user control.
7. Offer a GT3 aero package or a street version GT3.
8. Offer harness and fire extingusher options / brackets.
9. Offer screw in tie down eyelets.
10. Compare brake force sensitivty to ideal Porsche PCCB.
11. Reduce the travel in the throttle. Reference Porsche.
12. Look at making the new door release button as a stick on type and retofittable and reversable, keeping the old touch sensor for those who what it. The new button could be passive magnetic actuation.

Several items I would have mentioned are already being done now so no need to list those.
Nothing too difficuilt really!
 

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My view on the door opening would be it would be easier if there was a groove or something on the underside that guided your handed to the sensor
 

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Probably 2 and 3 you wouldnt be able to change without a major re engineering. The lower door sill is part of the structure. The opening height of the door has to do with the dimensions. I would agree that a gt3 body kit package should be made available or even something resembling close to it without the big flares which would affect width.
 

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My view on the door opening would be it would be easier if there was a groove or something on the underside that guided your handed to the sensor
Not needed Chris,if you use the whole of the flat of your hand it works everytime,whats good about it is when your used to it,it works every time!!
So its only those that dont own a car that have a problem:cool::cool::cool: (or dont use it enough)
 

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If I was running the show here's what I would like to seen be done in R&D and released to the customer. I'll add to this list as I think of more important upgrades. Comments welcome. Factory please consider!

1. Reduce the door closing resistance.
2. Increase the opening height of the door. Im 6' tall and its awkard.
3. Lower the obstruction height of the lower door sill.
4. Use remote controlled valves in the exhaust system for user control of the exhaust volume.
5. Investigate the use of a LSD.
6. Investigate the use of lowering the suspension for track use by user control.
7. Offer a GT3 aero package or a street version GT3.
8. Offer harness and fire extingusher options / brackets.
9. Offer screw in tie down eyelets.
10. Compare brake force sensitivty to ideal Porsche PCCB.
11. Reduce the travel in the throttle. Reference Porsche.
12. Look at making the new door release button as a stick on type and retofittable and reversable, keeping the old touch sensor for those who what it. The new button could be passive magnetic actuation.

Several items I would have mentioned are already being done now so no need to list those.
Nothing too difficuilt really!
Just a SMALL point Gazza,ive owned porsches for 27 years,this is not a Porsche and thats the reason i wanted one!!
 

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Just a SMALL point Gazza,ive owned porsches for 27 years,this is not a Porsche and thats the reason i wanted one!!
+1 turn it into a Porsche and I'm outta here. No heavy LSD for me, either, thanks.

Gazza do you own a 12C yet? If not, might suggest living with it for a couple of months and taking it to the track before asking for wholesale changes. I'm not taking offence, it's just that this is a different animal - for very specific and effective reasons that only become evident with time. Once you gel with the 12C, it feels very uniquely McLaren and that is a good thing.
 

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LSD, mechanical or electronic should be at the very top of that list. Using just a very intense brake steer system to get the nose in is the reason so many people think that this car is too electronic compared to gt Porsche or a Ferrari. I expect them to develop one for the GT model that is already under development I hear based on the GT3 race car. Chassis and suspension are so good that I m sure its possible to get same or even better handling without all this electronic braking going on..
My next wish would be more torque. Like 30% more :)
 

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Once you experience brake steer working properly at speed it is totally addictive and a different way of driving - you are literally fired through the entire corner rather than having the rear sliding and both wheels pushing you forward as an LSD does. Both are good fun once you master them but they are different. Most people are used to how an LSD system works and can therefore feel comfortable in the car when there is one fitted. The McLaren brake steer is different but every bit as much fun once mastered and most certainly a quicker way of getting through a corner.
 

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Gazza do you own a 12C yet? If not, might suggest living with it for a couple of months and taking it to the track before asking for wholesale changes. I'm not taking offence, it's just that this is a different animal - for very specific and effective reasons that only become evident with time. Once you gel with the 12C, it feels very uniquely McLaren and that is a good thing.
+1. Pls try the car first and you will probably change your mind + anyway, most of the points you are criticizing are structural, like the door sills.
 

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Once you experience brake steer working properly at speed it is totally addictive and a different way of driving - you are literally fired through the entire corner rather than having the rear sliding and both wheels pushing you forward as an LSD does. Both are good fun once you master them but they are different. Most people are used to how an LSD system works and can therefore feel comfortable in the car when there is one fitted. The McLaren brake steer is different but every bit as much fun once mastered and most certainly a quicker way of getting through a corner.
an lsd is much more fun if you want to be mr naughty :D
 

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They could keep a less intrusive brake steer together with an electronic LSD. With the current setup you literally can't throw the car in a tight corner and slide out of it with huge speed and an equally huge grin in your face. It forces you to drive it a certain way, provoking understeer so that the brake steer can dial it out electronically.
I think they can find a middle ground between fun and speed. The chassis/suspension is so versatile that it should be possible.
 

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With the current setup you literally can't throw the car in a tight corner and slide out of it with huge speed and an equally huge grin in your face.
I can post videos of Chris Harris and Chris Goodwin proving otherwise. The car can drift if you've got the skill. There is just a tremendous amount of mechanical grip to overcome first, so the speeds are going to be higher. Sacrificing outright performance for lower speed drift ability is definitely the wrong thing to do. McLaren is about being the fastest. The minute they start making decisions to the contrary, you may as well lump them in with the rest of the marques, as I can guarantee that the thought process will result in more than just an LSD but another 300 lbs of crap that the car does not need to go faster.

i.e. while we're at it, let's change to a heavier, less powerful NA motor for more fun noise and finer throttle response to help those drifts, also ditch the hydraulics for heavy roll bars which feel more familiar and definitely no need for the Air Brake as keeping the center of pressure rearward keeps too much contact patch in the back and makes low speed drifting more difficult. Voila - a heavy, slow Ferrari 458 with a kiwi badge on it. I'm not being a smart ass, I'm just convinced that is where this line of thinking leads.
 

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Discussion Starter #14
Item 13. A rear view camera!


Just a SMALL point Gazza,ive owned porsches for 27 years,this is not a Porsche and thats the reason i wanted one!!
From your past car list I see you have owned mostly 911s'. So from this perspective I totally understand your thinking. The handling of a 911 is ok but its far from perfect. I dont think I would ever buy a 911, although I always keep an open mind about that.
I currently have a mid engine Cayman S with PCCB. The brakes on this are better than the 12C and better than a 997. The handling is better than any 997 or 991.

+1 turn it into a Porsche and I'm outta here. No heavy LSD for me, either, thanks.
Gazza do you own a 12C yet? If not, might suggest living with it for a couple of months and taking it to the track before asking for wholesale changes. I'm not taking offence, it's just that this is a different animal - for very specific and effective reasons that only become evident with time. Once you gel with the 12C, it feels very uniquely McLaren and that is a good thing.
LSDs dont need to be heavy, they can be totally transparent. I'll be waiting for the 2013 12C.

LSD, mechanical or electronic should be at the very top of that list. Using just a very intense brake steer system to get the nose in is the reason so many people think that this car is too electronic compared to gt Porsche or a Ferrari. I expect them to develop one for the GT model that is already under development I hear based on the GT3 race car. Chassis and suspension are so good that I m sure its possible to get same or even better handling without all this electronic braking going on..
My next wish would be more torque. Like 30% more :)
I haven't driven the 12C enough to be a expert on it, but what I can say is that in track conditions a LSD equipped car will power out harder and with far more finesse and control than without one. I was supprised to learn the 12C does not have one.

Once you experience brake steer working properly at speed it is totally addictive and a different way of driving - you are literally fired through the entire corner rather than having the rear sliding and both wheels pushing you forward as an LSD does. Both are good fun once you master them but they are different. Most people are used to how an LSD system works and can therefore feel comfortable in the car when there is one fitted. The McLaren brake steer is different but every bit as much fun once mastered and most certainly a quicker way of getting through a corner.
Im used to trail braking so I think the brake steer will work well for me. However when you not braking your powering down, that when you need LSD. Talking about track driving at 9/10ths here.

+1. Pls try the car first and you will probably change your mind + anyway, most of the points you are criticizing are structural, like the door sills.
True, I realize its not simple and maybe only minimal things can be done.

an lsd is much more fun if you want to be mr naughty :D
This is very true. Now Im no burnout guy, but when you want control and a dramatic launch you want a LSD and NOT an open diff.

They could keep a less intrusive brake steer together with an electronic LSD. With the current setup you literally can't throw the car in a tight corner and slide out of it with huge speed and an equally huge grin in your face. It forces you to drive it a certain way, provoking understeer so that the brake steer can dial it out electronically.
I think they can find a middle ground between fun and speed. The chassis/suspension is so versatile that it should be possible.
Sounds like the car needs a negative camber alignment to dial out under steer However we must remember that this is a road car and not a track car. Although I would think it possible to meet both objectives like I have with my current car. -2 degrees camber front and rear gave a great result. The 12C community is so small and the car so new that I'll be relying more on the factory expertise as I feel they don't have hidden agendas unlike Porsche, and given this is considered a super car and not a sporty road car.

I can post videos of Chris Harris and Chris Goodwin proving otherwise. The car can drift if you've got the skill. There is just a tremendous amount of mechanical grip to overcome first, so the speeds are going to be higher. Sacrificing outright performance for lower speed drift ability is definitely the wrong thing to do. McLaren is about being the fastest. The minute they start making decisions to the contrary, you may as well lump them in with the rest of the marques, as I can guarantee that the thought process will result in more than just an LSD but another 300 lbs of crap that the car does not need to go faster........
Who wants to drift a 12C? Not me.
 

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Gazza,your still getting a bit beyond yourself,you must realise that Mclaren do everything for a reason,and that they have spent many thousands of hours either thinking about it or perfecting it,they did not have an agenda like porsche so could focus on everthing individually and producing something that is best in class for the right reasons.

AS for number 13,this car needs a rear view camera as much as saloon car,its no different to a cayman or a 911,and in many ways far better,ive never been in a car that has such a footprint that feel so small.
I think the best thing you can do is squeeze a flat 6 into your car,it will be far cheaper and you will be far happier:)
 

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I can post videos of Chris Harris and Chris Goodwin proving otherwise. The car can drift if you've got the skill. There is just a tremendous amount of mechanical grip to overcome first, so the speeds are going to be higher. Sacrificing outright performance for lower speed drift ability is definitely the wrong thing to do. McLaren is about being the fastest. The minute they start making decisions to the contrary, you may as well lump them in with the rest of the marques, as I can guarantee that the thought process will result in more than just an LSD but another 300 lbs of crap that the car does not need to go faster.

i.e. while we're at it, let's change to a heavier, less powerful NA motor for more fun noise and finer throttle response to help those drifts, also ditch the hydraulics for heavy roll bars which feel more familiar and definitely no need for the Air Brake as keeping the center of pressure rearward keeps too much contact patch in the back and makes low speed drifting more difficult. Voila - a heavy, slow Ferrari 458 with a kiwi badge on it. I'm not being a smart ass, I'm just convinced that is where this line of thinking leads.
^ This.
 

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Guys, it is pretty obvious that this Gazza man is an interloper and doesn't have a 12c; He is just trying to wind you up and is making a pretty good job of it. Ron and co knew the brake steer is much faster around bends and that's why it was banned. However the driver has to learn an entirely new skill and take a totally different line around the corner. That is why many of these journo's have not produced good times on a track and the 12c appears to disappoint. If you drive it the normal way you won't get the same results. I also think they got one of the Mclaren drivers in as stig on the Dunsfold lap, which is why they got into the 1.16's. (I understand that on another day they got a 1.12 !!!!) Then in the hands of such as Harry Metcalf etc, they don't know how to get the best out of it. It needs an entirely different technique on track. Then again, round Imola, (Top Gear) they had a Ferrari professional drive the 458, and against that you could hardly expect James to get the best out of brake steer. Actually it demonstrated how brill the car is in the hands of Mr Average, but to use brake steer you need a whole new technique. I have had a few sessions with racing instructors (in the past) and none of them will know how to use brake steer either: we need a Mclaren trackday with Chris Goodwin. Bruce get on that one please. (after September) Also, on normal roads, off track, without a very clear road, you wont get the very best out of brake steer either, as you need both sides of it.
:p
 
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