[drpetril]

I have seen a lot of videos and this is the only one that seems to bash the MP.



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ahsIOVx93zs

 

[6th element]

It's completely accurate. The 12C is slower than a 458. It handles like shit and it will kill you if you even think about trying to induce oversteer. The transmission and engine suck, too.

Just playing around. The show was discussed for eternity. Just search for the thread, make some popcorn and enjoy hours of entertaining reading.

 

[azmurciev12]

when Tiff reviewed for EVo Car of the Year, he kind of changed his opinion on the McLaren. anyway, you should take these tests with a grain of salt. buy what you like.

what i can say is the MP4 is fast, comfortable, has good outward vision and easy to maneuver. very good and well built car with the latest technology at your disposal.

 

[qvpower]

it is slower than a 458 for sure. Especially if you buy a 458 ringer from the factory...

 

[drpetril]

Thanks. I'll search around and see what everyone has to say. I believe the MP is faster on paper than the 458.

 

[Wtdoom]

You guys know me , im not really a blind mclaren fan ( though i am a huge fan , just not blind ) . a very good source tells me Tiff loves the 12c ( now ) and swears there's some differences between the car he tested on that program and the cars driven since .

 

[ergoproxy]

Physics says the 12C is faster in every way, they are joking drp.

I wonder whether the early 12C critics also whined and pined for the good ole days when ABS and stability control and ....transistors came out.

 

[andy c]

You guys know me , im not really a blind mclaren fan ( though i am a huge fan , just not blind ) . a very good source tells me Tiff loves the 12c ( now ) and swears there's some differences between the car he tested on that program and the cars driven since .

Nice to know your thinking of me!

 

[GPW]

Seems that Fifth Gear and Tiff puts a lot of importance on how well it's cars "Drift" Thats not why I bought an MP4-12C.

 

[6th element]

Seems that Fifth Gear and Tiff puts a lot of importance on how well it's cars "Drift" Thats not why I bought an MP4-12C.

Still, Chris Harris has never had a problem drifting it, regardless of which 12C he was driving. Check out his Spider review - he could have driven it sideways around the entire circuit. Contrast, at the end of the Ecoty vid there was an outtake of Tiff (supposedly) STILL wiping out in the 2013 12C. Maybe it is Tiff that has changed. Or he has stopped taking his meds.

 

[GPW]

Still, Chris Harris has never had a problem drifting it, regardless of which 12C he was driving. Check out his Spider review - he could have driven it sideways around the entire circuit. Contrast, at the end of the Ecoty vid there was an outtake of Tiff (supposedly) STILL wiping out in the 2013 12C. Maybe it is Tiff that has changed. Or he has stopped taking his meds.

Yes, agreed on Chris Harris... and maybe Tiff needs his meds. I just saw an episode where they tested a Bentley GT vs Jag vs Mec SLS vs Aston DBS. Again partially judged on drifting.

 

[texas mongrel]

Thanks. I'll search around and see what everyone has to say. I believe the MP is faster on paper than the 458.

As I've posted elsewhere on this forum, I had the opportunity to run against a 458 in a half-mile top speed event. Under indentical conditions on the same track, my car was always at least 10mph faster than the Ferrari (and that was without me using the launch control). We did it three times and the outcome was always the same. Makes you wonder about "factory" performance data doesn't it?

 

[6th element]

Yes, agreed on Chris Harris... and maybe Tiff needs his meds. I just saw an episode where they tested a Bentley GT vs Jag vs Mec SLS vs Aston DBS. Again partially judged on drifting.

I'm okay with drifting being a criteria for a review; it's certainly an aspect of a car's handling and the fun factor. I'm even okay with the possibility that the early 12C Tiff drove may have had some issue affecting the handling. What I find less palatable is Tiff's refusal to acknowledge the (even more likely, based on the evidence) possibility that he just messed up. Even in the new Ecoty vid, there is an in-car footage section where he is still tapping wildly at the paddle and the car does not grant him the downshift immediately because he will overspeed the engine. It's an easy mistake, one that I've made myself, because you don't realize quite how fast you are going in this car sometimes because it is so composed. Obviously, if you don't get the lower gear as you flick the steering to initiate your drift, you won't have the rear wheel torque that you were expecting to maintain the power slide. So the rear tires will grip and you will have way too much opposite lock on for the situation, initiating a tank slapper or a spin.

And, yes, I know Tiff is an excellent driver. But even the best guys can make a mistake in equipment that should not be challenging, for them. Adrian Sutil crashed somebody's Gumpert last year and he's less than half Tiff's age with current Formula One calibre reflexes. However, being a racing driver, I'm sure he didn't admit any fault, either!

 

[Wtdoom]

to be fair to tiff 6th even chris harris in his " living with the 12c " vid said something like " but there is one big change bout this car over the last time i drove it , before you couldnt really turn the systems off . now you can turn the systems off and it will do this !" followed my much hanging of 12c rear end . personally i think its a little bit of all of the above , main thing is we were right and the car is fantastic and we love it

 

[6th element]

to be fair to tiff 6th even chris harris in his " living with the 12c " vid said something like " but there is one big change bout this car over the last time i drove it , before you couldnt really turn the systems off . now you can turn the systems off and it will do this !" followed my much hanging of 12c rear end . personally i think its a little bit of all of the above , main thing is we were right and the car is fantastic and we love it

Very fair comment doom and one that I have made myself in fairness, before. Tiff could earn more of my tolerance if he would approach the car like a professional. He's well capable of it, as I've followed his work for years.

Anyhow, you are correct about the important bit, so cheers to that.

 

[Wtdoom]

Very fair comment doom and one that I have made myself in fairness, before. Tiff could earn more of my tolerance if he would approach the car like a professional. He's well capable of it, as I've followed his work for years.

Anyhow, you are correct about the important bit, so cheers to that.

Agreed . I understand 5th gear and TG are entertainment programmes but I think its irresponsible to completely forget this just for " entertainments " sake . I think 5th gear ( and especially ) Top Gear are more and more guilty of this .

 

[qvpower]

Drifting? I laughed when these magazines and programs keep touting the 458 on this virtue. I have worked with drift professionals and none of them drift on the streets with a nice car. Thats because they know eventually they will hit something... Journalist dont need to pay for the potential damages from sliding out of control from a drift... owners on the other hand do... And to tout that as a virtue or fun is just misleading... But hey, if an owner demolishes his 458 trying to emulate Tiff, I wont l lose any sleep over another totaled Ferrari...

 

[6th element]

Agreed . I understand 5th gear and TG are entertainment programmes but I think its irresponsible to completely forget this just for " entertainments " sake . I think 5th gear ( and especially ) Top Gear are more and more guilty of this .

Definitely. It seems Top Gear went over the top with it and then everybody else tried to copy them to some extent. The thing that I like most about Harris's reviews isn't the drifting, it's how he thinks his way through the car and analyzes it completely before delivering a verdict. I remember when I drove the Turbo S and GT-R back to back on a circuit and then posted my impressions here. Some months later, Harris drove the same cars and came to almost identical conclusions. In my eyes, it makes a journalist more credible, not simply that they agree with me, but rather that their process lends itself to understanding the car fully. Understand the equipment, what it's strengths are and how to best exploit them. As I said, a professional approach. Sadly, it seems there is not much of a market for it. Harris said recently that he officially has no print clients, now. It's all videos and we know the YouTube audience does not have the attention span for a thought-out, comprehensive review.

 

[6th element]

Drifting? I laughed when these magazines and programs keep touting the 458 on this virtue. I have worked with drift professionals and none of them drift on the streets with a nice car. Thats because they know eventually they will hit something... Journalist dont need to pay for the potential damages from sliding out of control from a drift... owners on the other hand do... And to tout that as a virtue or fun is just misleading... But hey, if an owner demolishes his 458 trying to emulate Tiff, I wont l lose any sleep over another totaled Ferrari...

Good point! Not to mention if you drive like that where I live, the law now allows the cops to seize your car, or even send it to be crushed, depending on what you were doing and how modded the car is (i.e. if it is deemed a racecar).

 

[qvpower]

Good point! Not to mention if you drive like that where I live, the law now allows the cops to seize your car, or even send it to be crushed, depending on what you were doing and how modded the car is (i.e. if it is deemed a racecar).

Yep, seen that happen before. And even drifting on the track, does it cut down lap time? nope... Is it fun? Yes... only when you come out of it... Here is a few youtube of ferrari drifting fail...http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f7WeXH5U7bQ http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O50UFNKq1MQ http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CYN3leKV9l0 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T-8FzbdMYfo

Seeing professional journalist Drifting may be fun to watch but shouldnt be emulated unless you are prepared to pay the bill.... Get my drift? lol...