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Discussion Starter #1
New guy here!

Sorry for the jump but I have been looking at the 12C for a while now, alongside the 458, but really want to know something from the real owners of the 12C. I was watching something on YouTube of the 12C saying that the earlier models of the 12C have valves rather than the cheap "drowning the cabin with noise". I just want to know what ones have these? I want to buy one with the valves because my current 2012 M5, the sound being piped through the speakers is just horrible. By the way, anyone got both the 458 and 12C? What do you prefer? Won't be a daily driver but would like to know anyway.

Thanks!
 

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Hi Pete. Welcome aboard.

All the 12Cs have an intake sound generator (ISG). Basically lets you set how much engine noise you want to let pipe into the cabin. Turning the setting down to a minimum basically disconnects the ISG. It does NOT work through speakers, but there is an aperture from the engine into the cabin that can be open or shut, depending on your like of VROOM VROOM noises. A lot of owners put this on the minimum/off setting, myself included. I leave it on for track setting. Noise outside the car is the same regardless of setting.

Bunch of folks here have 458s. I think the consensus is they prefer the Mac (they obviously will chime in); although, considering the forum, there's quite a bit of forum bias going on. :)

Consensus between the 458 and Mac on differing abilities is summarized as follows. Mac is faster. Basically in every conceivable way. And it's not even remotely close. It's just brutally and unapologetically faster. Hits through turns faster/better. Mac offers a better ride as a daily driver based on its near magical suspension.

458 is more engaging at slow speeds as the engine/throttle response are always on. e-diff on 458 makes it easier to drift, particularly at slow speed. 458 has bigger trunk, home link, light adjustable mirrors that are nice creature comforts. Oh yea, and many folks prefer the F1 like smack-a-bees-nest wail of the engine in the 458 better.

Mac is generally cheaper to own maintenance-wise.

Those are the highlights. Personally, if I had a 458, I'd be very happy with it, and vice versa. Not sure the delta is worth the change over, but, if you got cash to burn and don't need the ride, but more of a want thing, they are both amazing cars. Any pick, is a great pick; no wrong answers here.

Good luck with your pursuits!
 

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I'm sure all cars would have been upgraded to the later spec and have the ISG regulator fitted.
You can vary the setting on how much noise comes into the cabin via a dash setting, it's certainly not generated by anything electronic..:eek:
I personally have it turned off as it's a bit annoying after a while- sure it's fun on test drives ;) but after that I turn it off.

If it is noise you're looking for then the 458 is the way to go in my opinion, however if you're after something that makes a great sound and has an amazing driving experience, then you can't really go wrong with the 12C.
I again found the 458 a brilliant drive but the sound was just too much, even for my fun/adventure car
 

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Discussion Starter #4
Thanks for the replies!

Hoping to choose either one in the next months, don't really know if I even want one, because I drive back from my offices thinking "it's useless here and there" then I get while I'm bored "dude, just get it, so much fun". But I'll find the prices and see how much my Virage is worth :) then see what goes on from there
 

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Thanks for the replies!

Hoping to choose either one in the next months, don't really know if I even want one, because I drive back from my offices thinking "it's useless here and there" then I get while I'm bored "dude, just get it, so much fun". But I'll find the prices and see how much my Virage is worth :) then see what goes on from there
So the Mac is my only ride. I'm in NYC. It's amazingly useful. The trunk (and rear shelf on the coupe) offer a surprising amount of space. Can fit 2 carry-ons easily. It's no corvette or 911 in terms of rear cargo space that those cars offer. So, if you're making huge costco runs, this cannot be your only ride. If you want an all around near-station wagon performance, it's those two and the ferrari ff.

Anyway, it literally is my everything car. Never (knocking wood) had any issues with it. Ride is ridiculously good, which is an achievement in NYC. It's my grocery ride, mall ride, station wagon, track car, go out car, daily driver. Hasn't been an issue.

Obviously if you have kids, you'd need more seats, and then you're basically looking at a 911Turbo S (they better be two REALLY small kids, or up to a single reasonably sized human sitting sideways using the entire rear seating section to fit in the back) or Ferrarri FF

Hope that helps.
 

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Discussion Starter #6
Thanks man for the advice!

Already got a Turbo and to be honest it really isn't my type of car, neither is the Virage though, but lifes tough. The Turbo is just too non-Porsche to me, feeling all wheel drive just doesn't feel correct and because of that, it's probably going to be sold soon alongside the Virage.

But children really doesn't matter, although I have 2 children, I have a boy that is 12 and he loves trackdays compared to my daughter, so it really doesn't matter. If a family trip is needed, just being out the M5! The FF is just out of price range (around £70k) .

Thanks for the advice though.
 

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I have lots of Ferrari history, though not 458, and I have recently bought a 12C Spider. Since it is cold in the UK I haven't used it to the full but I already know it is going to be great.

I would buy a later car if you can stretch to it because there have been numerous 'quiet' updates. Personally I would get the sport exhaust (I didn't and have upgraded already). The sound is great - different to a Ferrari - but with its own character, especially in the spider which makes total sense to me over a 458 Spider. The carbon tub is a real plus because you can have the spider advantages with none of the traditional disadvantages.

Really, really fast too. ;)
 

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I have lots of Ferrari history, though not 458, and I have recently bought a 12C Spider. Since it is cold in the UK I haven't used it to the full but I already know it is going to be great.

I would buy a later car if you can stretch to it because there have been numerous 'quiet' updates. Personally I would get the sport exhaust (I didn't and have upgraded already). The sound is great - different to a Ferrari - but with its own character, especially in the spider which makes total sense to me over a 458 Spider. The carbon tub is a real plus because you can have the spider advantages with none of the traditional disadvantages.

Really, really fast too. ;)
I drove my 2012 12c coupe about 7k miles, 1 track day so had a decent feel for the car. I picked up a 2014 spider and all I can say is HOLY_***, its amazing. And I wasn't expecting that. The exhaust note is excellent, the power is ridiculous, even over the 2012 which was already insane. I know it makes no sense, but its there.

After 10k miles I gave up on the 458 (coupe and spyder). It was a great car, one of the greatest, until McLaren spoiled me. I just didn't want to drive it anymore.

Great problems to have!!
 

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I drove my 2012 12c coupe about 7k miles, 1 track day so had a decent feel for the car. I picked up a 2014 spider and all I can say is HOLY_***, its amazing. And I wasn't expecting that. The exhaust note is excellent, the power is ridiculous, even over the 2012 which was already insane. I know it makes no sense, but its there.

After 10k miles I gave up on the 458 (coupe and spyder). It was a great car, one of the greatest, until McLaren spoiled me. I just didn't want to drive it anymore.

Great problems to have!!
Did the 2012 have a Sport Exhaust?

Maybe the upgrade wasn't installed correctly - good to hear you are loving the spider but there are rolling and off the line comparisons in volumes and there is zero difference.
 

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Test drive both the 458 and the 12c. I fully expected to like the 458 better and am mclaren shopping instead.

I too would like to know what's been quietly updated! I'm in the minority, I very much prefer quiet cars, even race cars. But more power I am always in favor of!
 

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Did the 2012 have a Sport Exhaust?

Maybe the upgrade wasn't installed correctly - good to hear you are loving the spider but there are rolling and off the line comparisons in volumes and there is zero difference.
Yes 2012 had sport exhaust but they are different. The 2014 has no muffler, and some side resonator, they look totally different.

Not sure about the upgrade; I did notice a nice bump in hp after the upgrade but this is like bump^2 (my only gauge is seat of the pants on my favorite on-ramp). The 2014 does a full burn well into to 3rd gear. The weather has been pretty cold lately so that's some of it. But it seems more than that.
 

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Like what, specifically?
I suppose what I mean by 'quiet' is that McLaren have improved each model year without necessarily having the changes reported in the press - remember we are talking about early cars, which were criticised for some odd things.

For instance, the paddle shifters were criticised for requiring too much force to pull in the first cars, so they changed that from about 2012 onwards. There has also been a general improvement in the electrical system as early glitches have been ironed out. The suggestion from my dealer was some of that was software but not all. I understand the ISG was updated at some point so that it is user configurable to each driving mode (may have been applied retrospectively?)

The swipe door opener was replaced (some don't see that as an improvement but let's just say the dealer I bought from was delighted when it happened because he was fed up of the complaints). The IRIS system was updated for 2014 (as everyone here knows) but has only sparingly been reported in the press. I don't have experience of the old system but apparently the new one is a big improvement...

Also the optional vehicle lifter is only available on later models (I think it is more valuable than the salesman suggested - mine doesn't have it). I suspect there are other things I haven't thought of too.

As a general point, it is entirely normal for manufacturers to make running changes and for a new manufacturer that process will no doubt be even more necessary. Again my local dealer, if you believe what they say and I do, suggested that McLaren have learned a number of things and applied them to production as they have gone along. Again according to the dealer (although I also know this to be true from working in the industry) the reason the management team has changed is because McLaren's initial approach was to enter the market thinking like a race team. This they discovered does not work as well as they thought and they have since begun to think more like a car manufacturer.

One of the things this will mean is constant improvement in your supplier base to reduce warranty costs, improve 'simplicity' of production (makes production both cheaper and more accurate) and improve quality where possible. (Could of course also reduce quality in areas where cost saving opportunities exist).

So, it's not a big deal, but it would be odd if there are not some benefits to buying a later model, although the drawback is always price.
 

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I'm in the minority, I very much prefer quiet cars, even race cars. But more power I am always in favor of!
Nope you're not :)
I can happily live with the 12C roar but the 458 was just too much for me in the way I intended to use the car.
 

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I suppose what I mean by 'quiet' is that McLaren have improved each model year without necessarily having the changes reported in the press - remember we are talking about early cars, which were criticised for some odd things.

For instance, the paddle shifters were criticised for requiring too much force to pull in the first cars, so they changed that from about 2012 onwards. There has also been a general improvement in the electrical system as early glitches have been ironed out. The suggestion from my dealer was some of that was software but not all. I understand the ISG was updated at some point so that it is user configurable to each driving mode (may have been applied retrospectively?)

The swipe door opener was replaced (some don't see that as an improvement but let's just say the dealer I bought from was delighted when it happened because he was fed up of the complaints). The IRIS system was updated for 2014 (as everyone here knows) but has only sparingly been reported in the press. I don't have experience of the old system but apparently the new one is a big improvement...

Also the optional vehicle lifter is only available on later models (I think it is more valuable than the salesman suggested - mine doesn't have it). I suspect there are other things I haven't thought of too.

As a general point, it is entirely normal for manufacturers to make running changes and for a new manufacturer that process will no doubt be even more necessary. Again my local dealer, if you believe what they say and I do, suggested that McLaren have learned a number of things and applied them to production as they have gone along. Again according to the dealer (although I also know this to be true from working in the industry) the reason the management team has changed is because McLaren's initial approach was to enter the market thinking like a race team. This they discovered does not work as well as they thought and they have since begun to think more like a car manufacturer.

One of the things this will mean is constant improvement in your supplier base to reduce warranty costs, improve 'simplicity' of production (makes production both cheaper and more accurate) and improve quality where possible. (Could of course also reduce quality in areas where cost saving opportunities exist).

So, it's not a big deal, but it would be odd if there are not some benefits to buying a later model, although the drawback is always price.
Gotcha and thank you. I was aware of those. It's a tough call, I have been offered a 2013 coupe, new at a very attractive price... But it's hard for me not to buy a late 2012 and save quite a bit.
 

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Door swipe and original paddles are a matter of preference, not improvement. Remember you also lose the ability to manually activate Pre-Cog with the later paddles. (Just search pre-cog we've discussed ad nauseum).

New IRIS is retrofittable, so that cost is easily taken into consideration when comparing. The availability of the Lifter I will give you as a benefit, if indeed you need that option.

Re: electrics, my car is low 200 VIN and never experienced an issue that wasn't addressed by software update that ALL cars received, most of the time proactively too (as I never saw the issue occur before the update was installed).

The notion of the supplier base improving is just that, notional, and not based on hard fact. We have discussed many times here that the vast majority of issues have been very sporadic and not related to any discernible range of VIN. The only evidence I have seen to the contrary is that my dealer said Graziano had a batch of gearboxes towards the end if 2012 that were prone to fluid mixing; cars experiencing the problem received a brand new gearbox under warranty.

In fact, my service manager's impression is that the build quality was the best for the first 500 odd cars (based on VIN, not on how many cars they've sold), then things got slightly worse as they ramped up production and finally now getting better again.

Of course, YMMV.
 

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6th element;155105 In fact said:
My service managers impression is that cars around Vin 833 have proved most reliable, I cannot tell a lie.
 

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Discussion Starter #20
I'm surprised how fast this topic sprung up, especially for a noobie like me. Thanks for all the feedback, I'll make up my decision on the coming months whether I get it or not, or I choose something different! For now I will stalk this forum :)

Thanks!
 
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