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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
Well the GTR gets the bragging right on 0-60 at 2.7 secs with the Nurbergring at 7min 18sec.

However you have to buy the 2013 model to acquire bragging rights at £75000.....

http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/nissan/gt-r/61143/nissan-gt-r-updated

Still rather have my MP12 but the Nissan would be good for shopping.

To get this performance from a heavy car with a twin turbo V6 must mean the engine is at 9/10ths and the Mac V8 at 3/10ths.......some headroom in the Mac, surprise, surprise.
 

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Discussion Starter #3
Yes, kind of academic.No it is academic!
 

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It's especially ugly up close, with lots of little angles of unclear purpose.
I've never driven one, but reviewers say "rides like a garbage truck" vs the 458, which is none too smooth. But fast fast. Steady improvements in the relatively cheap GTR serve as a warning shot across Europe's bow. Those who rest on their past achievements won't survive.
 

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The Ring times may be speculative, but the GT-R is a phenomenal product. I drove the current edition back to back on a track vs the 458 and I can tell you it is in a different league of performance compared to the Ferrari. Nissan's AWD system is a revolution and deserves maximum credit/respect. They have a different philosophy (i.e. more weight than McLaren would allow), but it is extremely effective, nonetheless. If you doubt the GT-R, just go drive one; it is a serious package and at the price point, I agree it keeps everybody else honest, much the same way that Corvette does over here. Also, their ever-improving performance numbers are backed up by tangible hardware mods and power increases, year to year, instead of just saying B.S. like they improved longitudinal acceleration out of corners by XXX% just by tweaking the e-diff. :rolleyes:
 

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It is a properly fast car, but the MP4-12C should be able to do that sort of time with the 25 hp update and actually getting multiple hot lap runs from an experienced driver (who understands the MP4-12C). Also, the GTR was designed and honed on the Nurburgring for years. It is not a surprise that it can perform well there
 

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Um - who cares? If you've ever driven ANY GTR on a twisty, when you really start to push it, it becomes the video game it was designed to be. There's no real flow, just a constant adjustment as the AWD sends the torque to the proper wheel.

Quick? Sure.

Do I care? It was designed to be "played" by a kid who grew up on Gran Turismo or Need 4 Speed. It's merely the best video game, with the best physical feedback (it just so happens it actually gets you from A to B in the process). But for a car? Again. Ask me if I care.

Acura NSX is so much more desirable it's not even funny. ...and it couldn't touch the GTR's numbers. But at least it's a real car. GTR may, however, win (hands down) in the category: Best Grocery Getter.

How exciting!
 

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The Ring times may be speculative, but the GT-R is a phenomenal product. I drove the current edition back to back on a track vs the 458 and I can tell you it is in a different league of performance compared to the Ferrari. Nissan's AWD system is a revolution and deserves maximum credit/respect. They have a different philosophy (i.e. more weight than McLaren would allow), but it is extremely effective, nonetheless. If you doubt the GT-R, just go drive one; it is a serious package and at the price point, I agree it keeps everybody else honest, much the same way that Corvette does over here. Also, their ever-improving performance numbers are backed up by tangible hardware mods and power increases, year to year, instead of just saying B.S. like they improved longitudinal acceleration out of corners by XXX% just by tweaking the e-diff. :rolleyes:
Who would claim such a thing 6th;):D
 

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Um - who cares? If you've ever driven ANY GTR on a twisty, when you really start to push it, it becomes the video game it was designed to be. There's no real flow, just a constant adjustment as the AWD sends the torque to the proper wheel.

Quick? Sure.

Do I care? It was designed to be "played" by a kid who grew up on Gran Turismo or Need 4 Speed. It's merely the best video game, with the best physical feedback (it just so happens it actually gets you from A to B in the process). But for a car? Again. Ask me if I care.

Acura NSX is so much more desirable it's not even funny. ...and it couldn't touch the GTR's numbers. But at least it's a real car. GTR may, however, win (hands down) in the category: Best Grocery Getter.

How exciting!
unfortunately the world has to move on, can't always be stuck in the past.

The more ''current'' generation couldn't care less about how much of a pure-bred car it is, they haven't been around in them days where cars were simple and you needed skill to fully exploit one with no computer aid
 

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The Ring times may be speculative, but the GT-R is a phenomenal product. I drove the current edition back to back on a track vs the 458 and I can tell you it is in a different league of performance compared to the Ferrari. Nissan's AWD system is a revolution and deserves maximum credit/respect. They have a different philosophy (i.e. more weight than McLaren would allow), but it is extremely effective, nonetheless. If you doubt the GT-R, just go drive one; it is a serious package and at the price point, I agree it keeps everybody else honest, much the same way that Corvette does over here. Also, their ever-improving performance numbers are backed up by tangible hardware mods and power increases, year to year, instead of just saying B.S. like they improved longitudinal acceleration out of corners by XXX% just by tweaking the e-diff. :rolleyes:
I would agree with this. Personally I have little desire to own one but there can be no doubt it is a hugely quick and capable machine, especially for its price point and I am glad they exist.
 

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The Ring times may be speculative, but the GT-R is a phenomenal product. I drove the current edition back to back on a track vs the 458 and I can tell you it is in a different league of performance compared to the Ferrari. Nissan's AWD system is a revolution and deserves maximum credit/respect. They have a different philosophy (i.e. more weight than McLaren would allow), but it is extremely effective, nonetheless. If you doubt the GT-R, just go drive one; it is a serious package and at the price point, I agree it keeps everybody else honest, much the same way that Corvette does over here. Also, their ever-improving performance numbers are backed up by tangible hardware mods and power increases, year to year, instead of just saying B.S. like they improved longitudinal acceleration out of corners by XXX% just by tweaking the e-diff. :rolleyes:
I don't think the GT-R Ring times are speculative. It is just a matter of how they have been achieved.

IMO People tend to mix up street and track performance.

The GT-R, and I haven driven several of them, is certainly a very well performing street car and - in this very context - excellent bang for the buck but it is by no means a great track car.

Nissan simply cannot beat the law of physics and that's why those cars are just too heavy for serious track usage. We have seen just anything from overheating tires, overheating brakes, overheating transmission, broken transmission to clutch and engine issues. Overheating = Too much weight.

Good for one or two hot laps (or a nice youtube video) but not much fun on a long track day with advanced pace.

You need to invest at least a further 30'00-35'000€ on a GT-R to make it stable enough for serious trackday duty. And there is still the problem with the weight killing the tires.

The Macca (or 458 for that matter) will simply KILL any stock GT-R at the ring after just 3 laps.



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The Macca (or 458 for that matter) will simply KILL any stock GT-R at the ring after just 3 laps.
I wish there was a way to find out, but I'd take that bet vs the 458 any day of the week. The GT-R would be so far ahead after the first lap, it could back off and cool for half a lap. I'd also bet the 458 overheats something, including tires, before 3 flat out laps of the Ring. 12C, too, probably. None of these are race cars.
 

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GTR may, however, win (hands down) in the category: Best Grocery Getter.

How exciting!
I have to call bullsh*t on you AugustWest - my 12C is an AWESOME grocery getter.
 

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i ve owned two GTRs (2009 and 2011) and tracked the 2011 model like my mp4 this year and i can tell you that ownership cost is the same as the mp4 : fuel, brakes pads, dics.
I never experience any problem about overheating the transmission, the nissan is very reliable. yes you feel the weight, and naturally you shorten your session, but come on the japanese can support more than 3 laps

and it is certainly the car of witch i fread most during a track day (if well driven)
 

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i ve owned two GTRs (2009 and 2011) and tracked the 2011 model like my mp4 this year and i can tell you that ownership cost is the same as the mp4 : fuel, brakes pads, dics. I never experience any problem about overheating the transmission, the nissan is very reliable. yes you feel the weight, and naturally you shorten your session, but come on the japanese can support more than 3 laps
I cannot comment on Magny-Cours as I have never been there but I can certainly comment on the 'Ring and no way you can go there for more than two or three hot laps with a stock GT-R without facing brake/tire and potentially transmission (pre-2013) overheating.

The 12C is almost 400 Kg lighter and on track thats almost another galaxy.



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I wish there was a way to find out, but I'd take that bet vs the 458 any day of the week. The GT-R would be so far ahead after the first lap, it could back off and cool for half a lap. I'd also bet the 458 overheats something, including tires, before 3 flat out laps of the Ring. 12C, too, probably. None of these are race cars.
The 12C and 458 will be able to keep their pace significantly longer than a stock GT-R.
It's just a fact, weight is (almost) everything on track.



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The 12C and 458 will be able to keep their pace significantly longer than a stock GT-R.
It's just a fact, weight is (almost) everything on track.
Like I said, I'd take the bet vs the Ferrari, as the average customer 458 weighs approx 3500 lbs. McLaren... depends on the ambient temp, as we've seen cases where the 12C torques down in limp mode, if it can't get cooling. Maybe the straights on the Ring would help, but the Pirellis won't last anyway!!
 
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