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Discussion Starter #1
Just wondering how many people do an occasional track day without insurance.
I just signed up for a Porsche club DE and was not planning on getting track insurance. I have done about 10 of these over the years with my 993. I don’t push real hard and have never had a spin or gone off track. Am I crazy?
 

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Only crazy if you cant afford to fix or replace your car and possibly the track damage, depending on how the track you are on deals with things.
 

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Just wondering how many people do an occasional track day without insurance.
I just signed up for a Porsche club DE and was not planning on getting track insurance. I have done about 10 of these over the years with my 993. I don’t push real hard and have never had a spin or gone off track. Am I crazy?

Can you afford to write off the car?



While you may reduce your risk by not driving 10/10ths, things can happen that are out of your control. Fluid on track (especially a problem with Porsches and their stupid glued-on water outlets), spun out car after a blind corner entry, tire puncture from debris, etc. I've encountered all of these.


Insurance is totally a risk/reward game. Nothing crazy about either having or not having it.
 

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Ive tracked a few times in the P1 without insurance. Self insured as they say. Its very difficult to get track insurance on cars over $300k, and damn near impossible on cars over $1m.

I saw a guy total a 650 sprint on track. Coolant leak. Yeah, @#$% happens.
 

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I've been tracking since the '80s and been instructing since the '90s and I've never bought track insurance. DE events are inherently designed to be safe. They are actually safer than the drive to the track!

If you have common sense (and check your ego in the pits), you'll be fine. But at the end of the day, it's on you.
 

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Shit very much can happen. CJ and I use opentrack. 10% deductible (value of the car, not of the repair - if the value is more than the repair cost). So binning a 450k car is a 45k deductible. But IMO totally worth it. Ask bayareanady how much faster I was when I got the track insurance.
 

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I've been tracking since the '80s and been instructing since the '90s and I've never bought track insurance. DE events are inherently designed to be safe. They are actually safer than the drive to the track!

If you have common sense (and check your ego in the pits), you'll be fine. But at the end of the day, it's on you.

A lot relies on this...


I do think, depending on what you are doing track for (fun, self challenge, training?) also should drive your choices.

If you are out there to just push your car a little, and have fun its one thing, if you go to track with a set goal of increasing your ability, it makes sense to either buy a car built for the job or insure yours so that when you reach your talent threshold it hurts your wallet a little less.

It also depends on your track...big F1 event tracks have a crap ton of run-off...compared to small club tracks where they use tires and concrete walls to keep you away from those trees and rocks.
 

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Lateapex

In my younger days, I would track a Viper. I was told that if considered a driving school situation, learning how to drive high performance cars, and there was not a transponder on the car, that my normal insurance would cover the car. With that said, I would call my agent, ask if it is an educational track day, if the company would cover you. I have never purchased insurance but I am not going to say I have made the best decision. It really depends on YOUR comfort level but I would ask my insurance agent so you know your risks.

Mike
 

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Lateapex

In my younger days, I would track a Viper. I was told that if considered a driving school situation, learning how to drive high performance cars, and there was not a transponder on the car, that my normal insurance would cover the car. With that said, I would call my agent, ask if it is an educational track day, if the company would cover you. I have never purchased insurance but I am not going to say I have made the best decision. It really depends on YOUR comfort level but I would ask my insurance agent so you know your risks.

Mike

15 years ago, State Farm would cover HPDE events. Things have changed. I dont know of a single insurance company that will cover HPDE events anymore. Most policies have specific exclusions to exclude ANYTHING that may happen at a race track.
 

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i never insure a road car for track day usage. but as someone said, depends on your financial comfort, your comfort behind the wheel and how hard you intend to push it on the track
 

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No one ever wakes up and says "today is the day Im going to have an accident". Fact of the matter is that accidents still happen. Even though accidents are rare, Im guessing that most of us would buy auto insurance whether or not it was a legal requirement to hedge against the possibility that the unfortunate unlikelihood becomes the unfortunate reality. There is no legal requirement at the track. Its just your personal opinion of how likely an accident is going to happen. Someone here said that the drive to the track is more hazardous. I disagree. Accidents happen with relatively high frequency at these events. The salient question is how much you believe you can control/how much is chance + what the risk/reward may be. Some here may have the financial means to write off a deep six figure loss as "the cost for fun". Thats not me.
 

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15 years ago, State Farm would cover HPDE events. Things have changed. I dont know of a single insurance company that will cover HPDE events anymore. Most policies have specific exclusions to exclude ANYTHING that may happen at a race track.
Hagerty does but with a separate policy specific to HPDE events:

https://www.hagerty.com/Insurance/Track-Day-Insurance?gclid=Cj0KCQjw4qvlBRDiARIsAHme6otjWMqVePOgnPXc9AOTUI9ArESezkrJjKx9UnwSPF8eDZsqidfGN_8aAheUEALw_wcB&ef_id=Cj0KCQjw4qvlBRDiARIsAHme6otjWMqVePOgnPXc9AOTUI9ArESezkrJjKx9UnwSPF8eDZsqidfGN_8aAheUEALw_wcB:G:s&s_kwcid=AL!5126!3!284768505481!e!!g!!hagerty track day insurance&aff=gusbrdre
 

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Discussion Starter #15
Yeah I am just going to push the car a little and have some fun past the legal speed limit. They moved me back to the D group because I haven't been to the track in 4 years (which I was totally fine with). I can afford to write off the car but I don't think many people could say that it wouldn't be painful. Having been on this track with my 993 I already know the places I am going to have to dial it back with a car with twice the hp. I think other cars and fluids are going to be my main concern. The track (pitt race)is pretty "run off friendly" Not like a Watkins Glenn.
I guess my question really was, are there people out there that don't buy track insurance.. it seems there are.
 

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I’ve been doing track days for 20 years and have never gotten track insurance. I do think about it all the time, but typically decide against it. As you move up the run groups incidents become more rare, and I do believe that accidents are typically less likely on the track. If anyone is driving reckless they are removed, if anyone has a 4-wheel-off situation they are black flagged (and typically removed if they do it more than once), and there is usually lots of run off (yes, depends on track and corner, but a lot of tracks have some good run off areas). Track days are very much scrutinized for safety with eagle eyed marshals watching everyone all the time.

The group I see most incidents in is typically intermediate - more skill than a beginner, but also a bit more ego, but once you get to advanced everyone is usually very experienced and fully aware of their surroundings.

In all the events I go to, there are usually at least 100-120 cars in attendance, and maybe 1 “impact” incident, though many times none. Blown engines occur more often. So basically a 1% chance of an incident, but again, that incident is entirely dependent on group and experience.

Only once have I seen two people hit each other - and they were two friends who decided to try to race each other in Civic’s. They were removed.

Yes you can have an incident where a mechanical failure or something causes an issue, but it is rare, and can equally happen on the street (where it will probably be more dangerous with unpredictable road hazards).

Anyway, yes, insurance can give peace of mind, but also think about it - if accidents were common, would OpenTrack or Hagerty be in the business of providing insurance? They are, of course, hedging that the vast majority of people never have an incident over their entire track lifetime!

Thanks!

Z.
 

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Shit very much can happen. CJ and I use opentrack. 10% deductible (value of the car, not of the repair - if the value is more than the repair cost). So binning a 450k car is a 45k deductible. But IMO totally worth it. Ask bayareanady how much faster I was when I got the track insurance.
Dont forget to factor in the depreciated value of a wrecked car, at least 10% but could be 20% quite easily depending on model and damage. So that 45k deductable becomes 90k or 135k after its all said and done. Not an issue if you keep the car forever, but if its a car you want to sell someday, buyers will either avoid or expect a discount for a storied car.
 

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I have been tracking cars for 30 years. I have on occasion bought track insurance, but as a rule no track insurance. Just did a day at Road Atlanta with Chin and I drove pushed the car a fair bit, but having raced in several series I appreciate that these cars are wicked fast (150+) on the back straight at 130 on the front straight. Then it dawned on my that I am hitting speeds that are legit race car fast and I have a 3 point belt, so I dialed it back on the straights and focused on the corners. If you have sufficient experience behind the wheel you should be able to do fine.
In my previous car (E90 M3 that was very track prepped) I suffered a brake rotor explosion going into the bus stop at WGI. I slid sideways for 500 feet and came to a stop in the middle of the "duck pond" (the grass island in the bus stop). So it is possible to save a car from a failure.
All that being said if the insurance policy makes you sleep better, buy it, but I think that they cap the value at $150,000 so if the car is totaled you will have some exposure.
 
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