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Discussion Starter #1
Looking to hear from some of you that use the 12c at the track and run an aftermarket tune. The specific concern is heat management with the added boost/timing. I would like to add a set of catless downpipes along with a tune to address the post cat o2s.

Tom
 

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With or without these mods it is a mid engine car and was developed in a cold country which is 2 strikes already:oops:
Even with no mods heat can be a problem if you
1. row through the gears a lot
2. do a lot of fast laps like 10 plus on a hot day
3. are running a track requiring lots of shifting ( so try short-shifting and try only going down to 3d gear instead of 2nd
I have tracked my stock 12-C for 5 years in hot Southern California
After the first warm up session on a hot day I then go out and
do a re-warm-up lap then can only do about 5-6 hard /quick laps before oil temp reading motivates me to back off for half a lap
then I can do maybe 2 quick laps then a good cooldown lap and come in
I raced for 17 seasons so I may stress the car a bit more than most on my quick laps
Some folks seem to stay out for 20 minutes or more which I can't figure out unless they drive conservatively
I believe that it would be hard to say what the result of a particular tune would be but I guess more power could mean more heat
Removing cats and getting good thermal blankets for the down (up) pipes should help
The potential for heat soak in a twin turbo engine is a concern also
Changing the clutch oil and filter regularly is important
There is an expensive mod upgrading to the 650 S water pump
Have heard the stock intercoolers are not too great
Nevertheless....It is an amazing track car...fun and easy to drive fast (y)
 

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I'd heard that Ron Dennis decreed that the Oil / Water temp INDICATORs should only have 4 positions

  • Cold
  • Warming up
  • OK
  • Too hot
This may not be exactly correct, but I'm pretty sure that although it may look like a gauge, the engine temp display is in reality a piece of software engineering that indicates within which set of parameters the actual current temp is.

Fine for vast majority of us who don't really care so long as its within limits - but less useful for those who like to monitor trends ....... when deciding if they dare risk another track day lap for instance
 

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Discussion Starter #4
broomhilda: great feedback. Thanks much

Pittsartist: I believe the stock ECU has a bunch of correction maps to try to mitigate some of the overheating issues. I would be curious to know if aftermarket tuners tweak those settings, tuning on fans early, lowering boost etc.
 

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There is probably an infinite variety of program settings with many possible tweaks
I know of one reprogram that upped the rear wheel / to the ground reading by over 120 hp
which did result in higher temps
 

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Discussion Starter #6
No doubt, this was more of a general query to see how well these cars deal with extra heat from the added hp and from what I gather they dont deal with it well. I will most likely just leave the tune alone and save myself the headache.
 

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No doubt, this was more of a general query to see how well these cars deal with extra heat from the added hp and from what I gather they dont deal with it well. I will most likely just leave the tune alone and save myself the headache.
For the record my 12C is still stock, so I don't have first hand experience with any aftermarket tune used during a track day event...


BUT I have been exploring adding a tune, and I think Dyno Spectrum may have exactly what you need (no affiliation).

Dyno Spectrum can give you the ability to change the tune instantly via "Map Switching" using your stock control buttons, which would allow you to run back-to-back laps using the stock tune vs the higher power tune.

I would also suggest using a cheap OBDII plugin device, plus any Android or Apple Tablet as a display to give yourself a customized digital Dashboard to see your ACTUAL VALUES for Air Intake Temps, Coolant Temps, Boost Pressure, Timing, Catalytic Converter Temps, etc, etc.

I have been using this product below for 99.00 and it does extremely well. (again, no affiliation)

OBDLink MX+ OBD2 Bluetooth Scanner for iPhone, Android


Hope you find the solution! Please share your results once you make the decisions...
 

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Discussion Starter #8
The map switching is cool and those dyno spectrum guys seem to have their stuff together, just not sure if I care to do all that. I will probably just track it as is and go from there for now. Having overheating issues always puts a hamper on the fun...
 

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I know it’s not a proper track test, but I drove my modified 12c (725 whp, thru Dyno Spectrum) for 2 straight hours on a canyon run, not holding back with shifting, acceleration, or braking for the sake of trying to build up as much heat as possible. Outside temps were about 75 F. The water and oil temps were dead-steady at the “nominal” point... no sign of increasing, much less overheating. Just sharing a (mostly relevant?) data point.
 

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Discussion Starter #10
I know it’s not a proper track test, but I drove my modified 12c (725 whp, thru Dyno Spectrum) for 2 straight hours on a canyon run, not holding back with shifting, acceleration, or braking for the sake of trying to build up as much heat as possible. Outside temps were about 75 F. The water and oil temps were dead-steady at the “nominal” point... no sign of increasing, much less overheating. Just sharing a (mostly relevant?) data point.
It's good feedback, thanks.
 

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I know it’s not a proper track test, but I drove my modified 12c (725 whp, thru Dyno Spectrum) for 2 straight hours on a canyon run, not holding back with shifting, acceleration, or braking for the sake of trying to build up as much heat as possible. Outside temps were about 75 F. The water and oil temps were dead-steady at the “nominal” point... no sign of increasing, much less overheating. Just sharing a (mostly relevant?) data point.
did you get them to dyno tune it or did you just get a canned tune?
 

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So are you going to a drag strip and putting your foot down and letting launch control do the rest, or are you tracking your car at a road corse and driving on track? If you are going to a road corse I would really suggest that you don't do anything to the car aside from brake fluid (AP RS3/608) maybe Pagid Racing pads Much less expensive than OEM and work better. With 612 bhp on tap for a road corse I really DON'T think you need more power. I saw a 12C at Watkins Glen a couple years ago and right out the box on street tires he was turning very quick times.
Unless you can go all the way around a track and be FLAT on the gas prior to each apex you don't need more power.
 

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Details of my build are here. It was a custom tune after several hardware upgrades.


As for more power... that is a sticky one. Yes, 616 is a crap-ton, period. That said, if it was enough for everyone, the 720S would have 616 hp (625s?) For super tight road courses, it is not always helpful. On tracks and on canyons, however, it is bliss. Having a nearly flat 580 rwtq from 4K-7k RPM is absolutely amazing. In 3rd gear and 4-5k rpm, it seems to pull harder than the stock car did anywhere. Don't bash it till you try it. :)
 

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Discussion Starter #14
Lets be honest, more power power throughout the range is always more fun... ;) but it's not end all be all. I will probably get my ass handed to me by a miata...

This thread is just an attempt to kick some tires around, I don't need the power but if it can be done without compromising too much than why not. Nothing serious.
 
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