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It's funny. All those reviews are basically the same: McLAren clearly much faster (although there is a lot of dancing around the numbers), but the sound of Italia makes the experience. Amazingly enough, all those reviews are LESS informative than the early ones.

I can't wait for a real head-to-head track and straight-line acceleration comparisons. I know it will never happen since Ferrari will never allow it.
 

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Thank you zippycar!

So the 458 beats the 12C on Throttle response and exhaust note.
They forgot to mention the boot space in a 458 is bigger.

458 gets beaten everywhere else so the winner is....

Sometimes winning is not about being faster.

Indeed it isn't in a family saloon comparison test.


Had some difficulty reading the scans. Did I read that correctly: £13k for a YELLOW paint job?
 

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Had some difficulty reading the scans. Did I read that correctly: £13k for a YELLOW paint job?
Yes, that is a special 3 layer colour. Normal yellow is free of charge.

That new red press car featured in Autocar is in Rosso Fuoco - 3 layer red with similar price.
 

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It's funny. All those reviews are basically the same: McLAren clearly much faster (although there is a lot of dancing around the numbers), but the sound of Italia makes the experience. Amazingly enough, all those reviews are LESS informative than the early ones.

I can't wait for a real head-to-head track and straight-line acceleration comparisons. I know it will never happen since Ferrari will never allow it.
You'll have to wait until somebody gets a hold of a customer car. If you have a look at the Twitter feed of @McLarenF1Tech, you'll see that Ferrari did indeed bring a ringer to the TG test, with bigger brakes, probably higher RPM, 5 engineers, an F1 truck full of spares and who knows what else. Take that with a grain of salt, of course, considering the source.

What I'm curious to see is whether TG has a new power board time for the 458, or if they will stick with 1:19.1. Either way, @McLarenF1Tech claims that the 12C "comfortably" beat the hopped up Italia.
 

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You'll have to wait until somebody gets a hold of a customer car. If you have a look at the Twitter feed of @McLarenF1Tech, you'll see that Ferrari did indeed bring a ringer to the TG test, with bigger brakes, probably higher RPM, 5 engineers, an F1 truck full of spares and who knows what else. Take that with a grain of salt, of course, considering the source.

What I'm curious to see is whether TG has a new power board time for the 458, or if they will stick with 1:19.1. Either way, @McLarenF1Tech claims that the 12C "comfortably" beat the hopped up Italia.
also quoted that the 458 had light weight seats,and the 12c had electric,hence at least adding 40 to 50 kilos
 

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Is adding electric to seats really THAT heavy?
usually it adds at least 20 kg per seat over a full lightweight race seat which the 458 had
think gt3 compared to fully loaded heated electics on the turbo,ever tried lifting those out of your car!!
Also road and track mag and a swiss mag both tested the 458 without the ferrari crew and without a driver they were 1585kg and 1598 kg with 90% fuel a far cry from the 1485kg of the autocar car,which must be the lightest possible against the heaviest 12c,not quite a fair comparison.
The Swiss MAG made quite a fuss on the internet a year ago,but no reply came from ferrari
 

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20 kg over a lightweight race seat I can imagine but I was wondering how much heavier electric seats would be compared to the 12C's standard seats. Would that explain ALL off the weight difference over what McLaren originally claimed?
 

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Discussion Starter #11
Interesting fact I just read on ferrarichat.com and their many pages of wishing the 458 was better than the 12C

"It is a bit disappointing since McLAren-quoted weight is 1434 kg. So, it is off by 30 kg. However, the quoted weight of 1485 for Italia is utter fantasy. The lightest independently weighed US car was 1585 kg and that's with the lightest equipment possible"

http://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/sho...=327242&page=3
 

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Interesting fact I just read on ferrarichat.com and their many pages of wishing the 458 was better than the 12C

"It is a bit disappointing since McLAren-quoted weight is 1434 kg. So, it is off by 30 kg. However, the quoted weight of 1485 for Italia is utter fantasy. The lightest independently weighed US car was 1585 kg and that's with the lightest equipment possible"

http://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/sho...=327242&page=3
Oh, that's me trying to stir up a fight ;).
 

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All this debate about "passion" and "soul" of the car boils down to the same argument as paddle shifters vs. stick. Lots of people, particularly in the automotive press, seem to prefer a stick, even though it's slower. I just bought a Cayman R w/ PDK (and proper paddles, not buttons), and EVERY reviewer said that was wrong, and that it should be had with a stick. But let's be real. Paddle shifting is significantly faster than using a stick - there's a reason why that's all they use in F1. And in the 12C vs 458 debate, we're buying a $250K+ cars to go FAST. As fast as we can possibly go. That said, much like paddles, the 12C is definitively faster.

As far as I'm concerned, if the argument is about the noise from the engine and the passion/feel of the car, then the Gallardo is the way to go - but you never hear commenters bring that up (as of yet). That V-10 in the LP560 is wild, and the guttural roar of that car is intense. But it's not quite as fast as the Italia or the 12C (that said, the new Superleggera is no slouch and we're talking about a couple of tenths of a second).
 

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All this debate about "passion" and "soul" of the car boils down to the same argument as paddle shifters vs. stick. Lots of people, particularly in the automotive press, seem to prefer a stick, even though it's slower. I just bought a Cayman R w/ PDK (and proper paddles, not buttons), and EVERY reviewer said that was wrong, and that it should be had with a stick. But let's be real. Paddle shifting is significantly faster than using a stick - there's a reason why that's all they use in F1. And in the 12C vs 458 debate, we're buying a $250K+ cars to go FAST. As fast as we can possibly go. That said, much like paddles, the 12C is definitively faster.

As far as I'm concerned, if the argument is about the noise from the engine and the passion/feel of the car, then the Gallardo is the way to go - but you never hear commenters bring that up (as of yet). That V-10 in the LP560 is wild, and the guttural roar of that car is intense. But it's not quite as fast as the Italia or the 12C (that said, the new Superleggera is no slouch and we're talking about a couple of tenths of a second).
That's a very good point. Also, I think journalists write their reviews assuming that the buyer can only afford one car. Therefore, they claim that you'd have to be daft to order your supercar with anything but a proper manual. But if you already have other cars with stick shifts in your garage, you don't miss it.
 

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1301 vs 1336 kilos

For the McLaren MP4-12C. Depends on if it's standard or all the carbon options are there. This is however without the driver or any fuel aboard
 

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For the McLaren MP4-12C. Depends on if it's standard or all the carbon options are there. This is however without the driver or any fuel aboard
i doubt...

what carbon options available can really reduce weight?they're all purely cosmetic, i m sure in the engine bay it probably adds on, dont see how the interior could be much less than the alloy/plastic originals, at best it could be a few kilos difference but certainly nothing significant.

in options list, i probably just see the wheels as a real possible significant weight saver, to keep original steel brakes good idea instead of the ceramic options too, Iris probably not good idea about weight saving too.

so for a difference more than just symbolic in options list, i really just see the wheels, and probably also the different interior options (full leather must be few kilos i think)
would be good to have the weight of the sport exhaust too.
 

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ferrari PR have been doing their job again unfortunatley,The 458 in the mag test,which the 12c was faster in a straight line and around corners,looked like a standard car used in previous ferrari tests,but the car in the show around Dunsfold is reg 599tv which is one of the 2 which keep breaking all previous 458 lap records.Thet certainly know how to play the game!!
 

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ferrari PR have been doing their job again unfortunatley,The 458 in the mag test,which the 12c was faster in a straight line and around corners,looked like a standard car used in previous ferrari tests,but the car in the show around Dunsfold is reg 599tv which is one of the 2 which keep breaking all previous 458 lap records.Thet certainly know how to play the game!!
They certainly do, andy. And, judging by the sentiment on this forum, it is easy to see why they go to such great lengths. Very effective!
 
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