I think it is more his nose was put out when he tried to buy a car from a speculator and when the dealer found out turned the delivery truck around and refused to sell the car, just returning the deposit they had it as a demo car instead. I for one admire the dealer for doing this, Tom Hartley has made a good living from selling newly available cars at over list and Mclaren said from the start it would try to stop speculators doing this, perhaps Tom should pick his toys up and put them back in his pram rather than trying to talk down values just because he hasn't got one and be happy selling his Aventador
Tom Hartley - " MP4 12C only worth £160k"
In lastest evo magazine recons it should be £30k less than list price as it has not excited buyers. However he can get £30k premium for the Aventador he says. Has been in the business a long time but maybe missing the long term appeal of the 12C....
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Talking rubbish then.....just like when he says he can offer a 5 year old (2007) Bentley Continental for the price of audi a3 (25k max).....put me down for 2 please
He is , I also think the more people drive these cars the more the troubled and protracted launch will be forgotten and the car will be given the praise it so deserves, look at monkey Harris he has changed his tune, now really likes it since spending some time in it, and if Mclaren stick to their production figures then residual values should be OKTalking rubbish then.....just like when he says he can offer a 5 year old (2007) Bentley Continental for the price of audi a3 (25k max).....put me down for 2 please
So who is the bigger twat, then. This Hartley character, or Harry Metcalfe for giving him the EVO real estate to mouth off.
They both piss in the same pot,remember Metcalfe taking credit for PP changes when they were well into the pipeline!!So who is the bigger twat, then. This Hartley character, or Harry Metcalfe for giving him the EVO real estate to mouth off.
Completely agree. Tom needs to put his toys back in the pram and lump it on this one.I think it is more his nose was put out when he tried to buy a car from a speculator and when the dealer found out turned the delivery truck around and refused to sell the car, just returning the deposit they had it as a demo car instead. I for one admire the dealer for doing this, Tom Hartley has made a good living from selling newly available cars at over list and Mclaren said from the start it would try to stop speculators doing this, perhaps Tom should pick his toys up and put them back in his pram rather than trying to talk down values just because he hasn't got one and be happy selling his Aventador
I am not brushed up on law but surely this could amount to libel, if it is not true? Or can he get off with it because it is his 'opinion'?
No but he can get away with it by claiming to be a [email protected] which he may be to put out nonesense like that and discredit himself and damage his reputation.
He is a rich [email protected] though.........very rich.......
I approach all the resale speculation with a grain of salt. If you are buying the car with resale being a MAJOR factor then the car isn't for you(the flippers). I have no plans to sell the car anytime soon so the resale values aren't a concern to me. I plan drive it, detail it and then drive it again!
So, you don't care if the car loses a ton of value in a couple of years or not? Well, I'm not a flipper, but I do care. These things are toys, but I'm not actively looking to get hosed. It does matter.I approach all the resale speculation with a grain of salt. If you are buying the car with resale being a MAJOR factor then the car isn't for you(the flippers). I have no plans to sell the car anytime soon so the resale values aren't a concern to me. I plan drive it, detail it and then drive it again!
Agree and maybe it was a mistake not to let rich man Hartley have one after all he can boost used values and his comments are not helpful even though a load of tosh.So, you don't care if the car loses a ton of value in a couple of years or not? Well, I'm not a flipper, but I do care. These things are toys, but I'm not actively looking to get hosed. It does matter.
I always laugh when folk say if you cant afford depreciation dont buy one. If Mclarens do depreciate worse than their Italian friends I know which brand will hold the high ground with the vast majority of Supercar buyers>
Have McLaren made any promises or statements regarding residuals? Surely its an important element of the marketing strategy
Must be different in the UK.
The manager at my dealer told me yesterday that if i didnt want to wait for a car $25K over sticker would put me in one of their "available" cars today.
The residual is set but the lease company if i wanted to go down that route.
The manager at my dealer told me yesterday that if i didnt want to wait for a car $25K over sticker would put me in one of their "available" cars today.
The residual is set but the lease company if i wanted to go down that route.
They have quoted that they want to keep residuals high by keeping production on an order basis only,also they can target more buoyant markets to keep supply hungry in slower ones,hope im on the right track RICHave McLaren made any promises or statements regarding residuals? Surely its an important element of the marketing strategy
Also i dont think they want to make more than 1500 a year,although they are up a 1000 already!!!
Andy, I admire your belief in Mclaren as it is well founded.
The buggers will do what is necessary to provide a return, I'm a sceptic not a cynic as I do judge Mclaren want to do the best for all participants. But lets believe as it makes me feel better but the shareholder satisfaction will hold sway. As customers I suspect we are second to shareholders but they will do everything possible to protect our interests.
.
As David Beckham would say, ' at the end of the day I trust Mclaren above Fezza'.
ps I wish I had gone for VO, AHHHHHHHHHH
pss the order book has come down in the UK because they have ramped up production!
The buggers will do what is necessary to provide a return, I'm a sceptic not a cynic as I do judge Mclaren want to do the best for all participants. But lets believe as it makes me feel better but the shareholder satisfaction will hold sway. As customers I suspect we are second to shareholders but they will do everything possible to protect our interests.
.
As David Beckham would say, ' at the end of the day I trust Mclaren above Fezza'.
ps I wish I had gone for VO, AHHHHHHHHHH
pss the order book has come down in the UK because they have ramped up production!
I hope Mclaren do keep a close eye on depreciation. Re production they stated that the model life would be 5000 units world wide over 5 years with a new model every year, MP4 coup will be higher than 1000 per annum initially as that is the only model being produced, as the spider model comes on line so the production line will have to share space with both models, also demand for coup will slow as it ages. So over the 5 years there may well be only 5000 units built but I think the bulk could be in the first 2-3 years of production then production will tail off until number 5000 is built.Have McLaren made any promises or statements regarding residuals? Surely its an important element of the marketing strategy[/QUO
They have quoted that they want to keep residuals high by keeping production on an order basis only,also they can target more buoyant markets to keep supply hungry in slower ones,hope im on the right track RIC
Also i dont think they want to make more than 1500 a year,although they are up a 1000 already!!!
If Mclaren want to build a solid brand and following as they have stated then they need to look after buyers to build confidence
I thought the same about the Tom Hartley view - that he had his nose put out by the dealer for not letting him buy one.
Now whilst this is admirable for controlling who buys the products but I do believe that the hype created by specialist dealers buying early cars and selling over list can only enhance the brand and image of the cars.
If the first production McLaren is going to have poor residuals next to the 458 then in the long run the damage to the brand will be done as rich as many people appear to be no one wants to lose money on their cars.
I am not saying a car should be an investment but I would never buy a brand new Bentley GT as a 6 month old car is already £30K less (or more). I have always bought nearly new for cars such as this as I don't want to lose huge sums as I drive it away from the dealer. The Mclaren is my first brand new car for a long time as I didn't fear the residual loss and still don't. But they should be careful as being too arrogant will cause the dealers and eventually the paying public to lose support.
I firmly believe the early negative press was largely due to the arrogant approach to the launch of the car where it was 'better in every respect and they have the data to prove it....' all this does is make 'I know better' journos write negative reports and then metcalf 'how to make it better' articles. Journalists want to sell and if they can find fault in the best then they will love doing it regardless of their real opinion - this is how the world is. McLaren, in my opinion, should understand this and use it to their advantage rather than giving people the amunition to write another headline.
Now whilst this is admirable for controlling who buys the products but I do believe that the hype created by specialist dealers buying early cars and selling over list can only enhance the brand and image of the cars.
If the first production McLaren is going to have poor residuals next to the 458 then in the long run the damage to the brand will be done as rich as many people appear to be no one wants to lose money on their cars.
I am not saying a car should be an investment but I would never buy a brand new Bentley GT as a 6 month old car is already £30K less (or more). I have always bought nearly new for cars such as this as I don't want to lose huge sums as I drive it away from the dealer. The Mclaren is my first brand new car for a long time as I didn't fear the residual loss and still don't. But they should be careful as being too arrogant will cause the dealers and eventually the paying public to lose support.
I firmly believe the early negative press was largely due to the arrogant approach to the launch of the car where it was 'better in every respect and they have the data to prove it....' all this does is make 'I know better' journos write negative reports and then metcalf 'how to make it better' articles. Journalists want to sell and if they can find fault in the best then they will love doing it regardless of their real opinion - this is how the world is. McLaren, in my opinion, should understand this and use it to their advantage rather than giving people the amunition to write another headline.
I think there is a lot of sense to what you are saying and it looks like McLaren has already learned from the initial UK experience. Certainly seems like they are starting off differently in North America: http://www.mclarenlife.com/forums/mclaren-mp4-12c-p11/773-chris-goodwin-fan-club.htmlI firmly believe the early negative press was largely due to the arrogant approach to the launch of the car where it was 'better in every respect and they have the data to prove it....' all this does is make 'I know better' journos write negative reports and then metcalf 'how to make it better' articles. Journalists want to sell and if they can find fault in the best then they will love doing it regardless of their real opinion - this is how the world is. McLaren, in my opinion, should understand this and use it to their advantage rather than giving people the amunition to write another headline.
That said, however, I believe the biggest mistake early on was not recognizing the inevitability that Ferrari would send a couple of hot 458 press cars around. Ron's performance claims were justifiable, as certainly McLaren's own test data would have shown the 12C to be quantifiably quicker than a customer spec 458 around almost any circuit, probably on the order of 1-3 seconds per lap, depending on the track, and 10+ seconds on the Nurburgring. How different would the conclusions of some early UK reviews have been, if this performance gap had seen the light of day? Probably quite different and I imagine nobody would have questioned Ron's bold assertions. Remember, the 12C posted the quickest road car lap ever by Evo around Bedford, new 458 press car notwithstanding.
So, I can't really fault Ron for making the claims because they are actually true. But I do fault them for assuming that Ferrari would go quietly into the night; there was no way Ferrari was going to let that happen. Not sure if that means that McLaren could have actually done anything differently, save perhaps issuing a disclaimer about Ferrari, which admittedly, would be awkward. Maybe they should have presented some of their own test data versus not just the customer 458 they used, but some of the other cars in the segment, as well.
Anyway, lesson learned, it seems and hopefully this round of North American press will get off on a better foot. I'm sure the Ferrari North America press 458 is lowered on bubble gum tires as we speak and tuned to within an inch of its life while it waits for any comparos. But, at least McLaren is being proactive about the things that it can control, i.e. showing the journalists what the 12C can really do (with Goodwin at the wheel) and that you can go as sideways as you like if that is really what you want to do.
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