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To Ceramic or not to Ceramic?

12K views 85 replies 26 participants last post by  Belg 
#1 ·
So ceramics are over £10k... any comments or hints? :(
 
#2 ·
Most have said that 80% of cars are spec'd without ceramic brakes. If you like the look of the bigger rotors, and hate brake dust, get them. If not, plenty of stopping power available with the standard brakes.
 
#4 ·
I have standard brakes, and am very pleased. I've driven std and ceramics back to back on the track, and was hard pressed to feel the difference. Keep in mind, though, I'm not a professional driver and drive nowhere near the limits of the car. I would definitely not spend the extra cash for the ceramics. IMHO... Very expensive cosmetic option for the great majority of 12c, non-professional driver, owners.:)
 
#5 ·
I went with CCBs - my first set on a road car ever - and will never go back. I think it is worth the extra money over the brake dust alone. That might sound crazy, but I've cleaned far too many dust-coated calipers and wheels and the difference is huge. I'd also say that the CCBs look better (they fill the space inside the wheel better) and work about the same as iron for most applications. The only exception is when iron brakes fade due to heat buildup on the track.
 
#6 ·
Hey N8te I can appreciate what you've stated above, I feel the same way about keeping the rims and calipers clean a freaking pain in the ass. I had asked to get my setup switched but after doing the math it just didn't make any sense. Well enjoy your rim filled, dustless CCB system and drive with pride. Cheers....??
 
#8 ·
I have heard the reverse, if you track your car with ceramic brakes, you need special pads, as street pads will deteriorate quickly. Then you run the risk of running the pads down too low, and damaging the expensive rotors. Or you get unlucky, and brake too late and get into a gravel trap and chip one of the rotors.

Most guys that track alot from what I have heard put on better steel rotors and special track pads, as well as running higher temp. brake fluid.
 
#9 ·
There are no special ceramic pads for the track here. If you are concerned about the cost of the Ccb brakes then don't get them. They are not necessary based on all the reports. I do enjoy mine, but they are expensive.
 
#11 ·
Talk with Rad (F430GT) over on Fchat, you are taking a risk. Street pads are not designed for track use. I have a hard time believing McLaren's stock pads are much different than Ferrari's.
 
#13 ·
I would suggest the ceramic brakes. I've bedded in the ceramic brakes on my MP4 and it works much better than the 458. Fade free at track and stops effectively when cold.

458's ceramic brakes need to be warmed up in order to bite effectively even though I have bedded them in.
 
#14 ·
If you can afford them buy them.

They do help to reduce brake dust build up.

They look better.

They last longer (in theory)

They could well help resale value.

On track, if used properly will provide very consistent feel and braking performance.
 
#16 ·
Both are great braking systems, really depends on how you use the car. Personally speaking, if you've ever reached the end of a straight on track at over 150 MPH and been welcomed by a soft brake pedal or fade, the extra cost of ceramics suddenly becomes very small indeed.

Looks are secondary for me, but I cannot lie the ceramics look amazing filling up the wheels and I do stare and smile at them, myself.
 
#18 ·
still an interesting debate this one....
I remember boiling my standard brakes at 601 miles after a stop from 150 + ... thinking uh oh should have gone for ceramics, but equally now the car is older and wiser, big stops on big tracks have not been a problem, and the brakes are better than ever...
service didn't reveal any issues regarding replacement pads or so forth... which equally surprised me... perhaps I am more jenson than lewis... (lewis who?)
interested to read markjayw and mcdc's comments re ceramic pads... I wasn't aware of that which would I guess put me more firmly into having the standards again next time round..
 
#27 ·
I must say, I've always found the brakes to be my least favorite aspect of the car (I have steels). The pedal feels sort of dead and non-progressive. However, at COTA last weekend we were hitting 160+ on the back straight and they always did the job. When I finally worked up the nerve to brake really late I felt very little pump-back from the ABS, no fade, and only a little squirming. I still get that instantaneous flash of "oh shit, I'm not going to make it" tho' when I first press down on 'em.....
 
#28 ·
I know I'm new here but I would argue that ceramics are better for street driving then for the track. I have ceramics on my 12C and most of my Porsche street cars but now run steel at the track in my Porsche GT3 Cup. Noted that I have good brake ventilation but so does the 12C. I have gone from 182 mph to 80 mph going into turn one at Daytona all day long with no issues on steel. Not to mention all the other tracks. I also found that debris on the track drastically reduced the life of ceramic rotors more than steel. I also prefer how trail braking feels with steel versus ceramics. That said I prefer ceramics on the street and the stopping power I get. Just a personal choice. I have only done lite tracking with the 12c (trying to get a harness bar and seats) before anything more aggressive. I did just reach out to Dino at StopTech to see if they have a big brake kit (or would make one) for the 12c.
 
#29 ·
All the Mclaren test/works drivers I have met would support steel for everyday use but if you had the budget then ceramic for road use..........the party line seems to be the iron brakes are good enough.
 
#33 ·
so if we are running steel on the track, is pagid pads and motul brake fluid our best bet on the mp4?
Motul 600 or Castrol SRF is the way to go.

As for the pads, it remains to be seen how well the Pagid RS29 works on the 12C. It is an endurance compound with decent rotor wear and a good, progressive ramp up. However, it is prone to overheating (leads to glassing) and wet conditions can make parts of the compound fall apart early.

Another interresting choice would be the Endless MA45B compound. Manthey racing is using it on their GT3's for the 24 hours at Nürburgring. They don't change the pads a single time in 24 hours. How cool is that. From my experience, it is a bit more aggressive than the RS29 with little more rotor wear. Does last at least twice as long at more than double the price.



 
#34 ·
I have twice tracked my car, and have steel disks. The brakes performed flawlessly. The pads were about 80% worn after 4,500 miles and replaced pre-emptively when the car went for upgrades. The disks look perfect. The feel and progression of the steels is widely accepted to be better than the carbons. I am very pleased with my brakes!
 
#35 ·
I have twice tracked my car, and have steel disks. The brakes performed flawlessly. The pads were about 80% worn after 4,500 miles and replaced pre-emptively when the car went for upgrades. The disks look perfect. The feel and progression of the steels is widely accepted to be better than the carbons. I am very pleased with my brakes! One further advice, I have stealth finish wheels which do not show any brake dust, and clean off without difficulty.
 
#36 ·
The feel and progression of the steels is widely accepted to be better than the carbons.
Not trying to pick a fight, but I'd be careful about that statement. There has been a lot said in the press about this car (about all of its features, not just brakes) that is not entirely accurate. From my experience, most of the actual owners on this forum have been very satisfied and impressed with the CCB performance. So, while I'll agree that the iron brakes are excellent in their own right, to say that they are 'widely accepted' to be better than the CCB is probably misleading if you take actual customers into account.

As I've mentioned before, the pedal is firm like a racecar, thus taking some miles to get your ankle acclimatized to the required pressure. That also makes them very, very reassuring when braking from high speed. I've never had any issue with progression as it is perfectly linear in my car. I've also never experienced the early intervention of ABS that some other members have talked about with their iron brakes. If anything, at very low speeds (i.e. when you are parking the car or reversing, etc.) you might wish for a touch more feel, but that's about it.

Again, not looking for confrontation, just want to make sure the OP is getting the most accurate information possible for his decision. Cheers.
 
#48 ·
6th, I think you have a real point regarding track use if the ABS doesn't cut in, as I certainly found the ABS not helpful at all on a wet track (Silverstone), but it is hard to understand why the ABS would act differently. I reckon there might be some advantage in having the ABS adjustable via the settings menu. Incidently, new pads for the steels cost me £178.98 for a pair which then had VAT and then fitting added, total £345.28 (McLaren London). Finally, If you would like to swap cars for a couple of days, we can properly compare the difference.
 
#54 ·
When I bought mine the dealer advised me to not take the ceramic brakes. He said they are great for track usuage but not for all over capabilities. The ceramic brakes need to warm up and are lots heavier. I've got ceramic on the Aventador and on the sls. In the sls one sees whether the brakes are on temp for heavy usuage. It does take some miles before the light stops flashing.
I'm quit satisfied up till now with the brakes but future will tell if it was a good decision
 
#55 ·
Pretty cool that the SLS has a break rotor temp. warning light. Never heard of this in a street car yet. Wife loves Mercedes, she will be driving one Tuesday in Vegas.
 
#56 ·
I still find the issue confusing, even after falling in love with gen 2 PCCB.
If the ceramics were lighter, it would be a no-brainier.
Nothing else about the car is "entry level", so why should the brakes be so?
Is the car shipping with adequate fluid for the track and pads that work well but don't squeak?
What's with the lack of cooling vents on the irons?
Credit to McLaren for not jumping 100% on the ceramics bandwagon.
Yet still the party line "ceramics are for the track."
At that cost, they clearly aren't.
IMO riding the pedal too much as an amateur is more likely to cook the brakes than any degree of hard driving.
I wish McL had just done a stellar iron set up and left it at that.
Profit from the ceramics is probably the key factor.
 
#58 · (Edited)
Hi there,
i have done it::cool:
I changed my iron brakes against the CCB in Hamburg...
Costs: ca 15k Euro....
Now i'm happy, for the look and for the breaking!
In my opinion its going quick to get them warm, and there is no squeak:)
Regards
Andreas
 
#59 ·
CCB should be standard period.
 
#60 ·
I can't say I agree with that, I love options, I would love to see a 6 piston caliper and a 380mm iron rotor option. Don't get me wrong I also love CCB, all they need to do is elevate the current offering to the PCCB level. Probably the most important thing to this equation is not everyone wants to dish out the big bucks required to maintain the CCB option, which has been stated quite often on this site. Cheers.....??
 
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