Thoughts since the V8 will continue?

3329 Views 65 Replies 30 Participants Last post by Bankai, 8 d ago

mkraft3003

Discussion Starter · 1 mo ago (Edited)

Let’s get a discussion going on everyone’s speculation on the future and how the 750s will shake out. I think a lot of people assumed this was going to be the last V8 and that the next supercar was going to be a V6 hybrid. This made the 750s the last of its kind and with the alleged short run it was positioned to be a must have car (Assuming you don’t already have a 765lt)

Now that we know the next generation will be a V8 hybrid and there will be a significant increase in HP (and assuming performance) what does that do to the market? There will be those that argue that no way do they want a hybrid as it adds weight, but the counter argument is the weight would be offset by the increased HP.

I think it’s safe to assume that we will see a totally new design for the car. A lot will hinge on how the new car looks, but Mclaren does a good job with their cars. Assuming the performance is better than the 720s and 750s does that market take a big hit? I think the market would stay strong IF the next car was a V6 hybrid but that’s not the case now.

Thoughts And speculation?
(As a disclaimer I go into every car purchase assuming I will lose a ton. I buy to enjoy and life’s too short to worry about resale).

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mkraft3003

Discussion Starter · #41 · 19 d ago

kovalser said:
I'm skipping the 750S and really hoping for next gen to be a V8 hybrid. Car needs have significantly more power for every extra you pound of weight from the high voltage system and motors - i.e. 15% power bump for 10% more weight. I'm planning to keep my 720S until then, unless I find a deal on the perfect SF90 or maybe 765LT in the meantime. I sort of daily drive the 720S so not really seeking a hard core, track-oriented car.

M840T is a fantastic engine, as most already know derived from an old Nissan race engine design, and would expect McLaren to modify it (for more power/durability/efficiency) rather than starting anew... just like the M838 > M840 > M8xx. Hard to believe given their financial situation they'd actually devote the resources into R&D of a brand new V8 engine, and as a consumer I'd be wary of buying the new car with it until the engine is proven solid over time.

If they go with a V6 in the 720S replacement, my future auto business will certainly go to Ferrari or Lamborghini.

only problem is You’d be looking at a V6 hybrid with Ferrari as well (296). Mclaren has confirmed that a V8 hybrid will be in the next super car. Think the V6 hybrid will be in the lower category and the V8 hybrid will be in the super series.

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alexceres

· #42 · 19 d ago

While I’d prefer a v8, it’s kinda silly to pre-judge a v6 before seeing it. Porsche was getting 690hp out of a 6 cylinder in 2018. It shouldn’t be difficult to get over 700hp from the ice motor and 200hp from the EV motors to get near p1 quality specs (at least on paper) at 25% the price.

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xero

· #43 · 18 d ago

I don’t understand the cylinder snobbery personally. Driven the 296 and it’s quicker (in a straight line) and sounds better than the 720.

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Iron5

· #44 · 17 d ago

McLaren will position itself in the future (with its two-seater rear-/mid-engined cars) mainly in the market segment above today's 720S, i.e. clearely above a 296 GTB. Under this perspective, a V6 doesn't make sense for image reasons, even if this technology basically has its justification.
MaLaren will still be represented in the lower segment, but presumably no longer with a two-seater rear-/mid-engined sports car, in which case it may be a little less demanding drive technology, because with such a "fun vehicle" the vehicle concept itself is more relevant than the number of cylinders in the drive.

The few individual McLaren products will definitely have to differentiate themselves more clearly from one another in the future. this applies to the drive unit as well as the vehicle concept. I think McLaren has understood and is positioning itself correctly for the future.

From this point of view, I'm sticking to my assumption: McLaren will mainly focus on the 720S successor and position it significantly higher again. For the lower price segment there will be no successor to the Artura, which will be replaced by a completely new vehicle concept.

See less See more

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xero

· #45 · 16 d ago

Iron5 said:
McLaren will position itself in the future (with its two-seater rear-/mid-engined cars) mainly in the market segment above today's 720S, i.e. clearely above a 296 GTB. Under this perspective, a V6 doesn't make sense for image reasons, even if this technology basically has its justification.
MaLaren will still be represented in the lower segment, but presumably no longer with a two-seater rear-/mid-engined sports car, in which case it may be a little less demanding drive technology, because with such a "fun vehicle" the vehicle concept itself is more relevant than the number of cylinders in the drive.

The few individual McLaren products will definitely have to differentiate themselves more clearly from one another in the future. this applies to the drive unit as well as the vehicle concept. I think McLaren has understood and is positioning itself correctly for the future.

From this point of view, I'm sticking to my assumption: McLaren will mainly focus on the 720S successor and position it significantly higher again. For the lower price segment there will be no successor to the Artura, which will be replaced by a completely new vehicle concept.

Not obvious Mclaren has the brand cachet to price and compete at that level. They need to move units and they won't do that with a focus in that segment.

Not replacing the Artura and introducing what you effectively describe as a 'Roma' but with a V6 sounds equally ill-advised.

Bart Carter

· #46 · 15 d ago

I was so against a V-6. Every car I have is a V-8. (Crap! I just got a Quadrifoglio and can't say that anymore.)

But after reading everything I could about the Artura, and the way it looks, I am looking at colors.

My wife has has a 570S Spider which she has "enhanced" with exhaust, tune, wing, wheels and more. I feel guilty, but not guilty, in convincing her to get it over a Lamborghini. Had me looking for a 600LT. But the Artura, especially with the warranty and service, seems the way to go.

Reactions: 5

MTV8

· #47 · 14 d ago

There has never been a great sounding V6 engine. On the other hand, every V8 sounds good. This is on a scale obviously, but the best V6 may approach the worst V8 in terms of sound.

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xero

· #48 · 13 d ago

MTV8 said:
There has never been a great sounding V6 engine. On the other hand, every V8 sounds good. This is on a scale obviously, but the best V6 may approach the worst V8 in terms of sound.

Fairly silly thing to say.

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Bankai

· #49 · 13 d ago

xero said:
Fairly silly thing to say.

Exhaust note preference is subjective, so how is it silly? I agree with them, for the most part. There have been a couple of V6s that I thought sounded OK, but none that that I thought sounded really good, and definitely none that I thought sounded great.

mkraft3003

Discussion Starter · #50 · 13 d ago

Bankai said:
Exhaust note preference is subjective, so how is it silly? I agree with them, for the most part. There have been a couple of V6s that I thought sounded OK, but none that that I thought sounded really good, and definitely none that I thought sounded great.

Ford GT?

Reactions: 2

gsxrian

· #51 · 13 d ago

MTV8 said:
There has never been a great sounding V6 engine. On the other hand, every V8 sounds good. This is on a scale obviously, but the best V6 may approach the worst V8 in terms of sound.

Stock 'AMG GT BS' with a flat plane crank, sounds like crap, but the AMG GTR, with a cross plane crank, sounds good!

gsxrian

· #52 · 13 d ago

... and THIS 'straight six' sounds fantastic!

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xero

· #53 · 13 d ago

Bankai said:
Exhaust note preference is subjective, so how is it silly? I agree with them, for the most part. There have been a couple of V6s that I thought sounded OK, but none that that I thought sounded really good, and definitely none that I thought sounded great.

You already alluded to the two obvious reasons - it's subjective and depends on the exhaust.

That aside V8's aren't only produced for sports cars. Ever listen to the V8 in the previous gen Land cruiser with a GPF filter? Maybe the Nissan Patrol? You, subjectively even, think it sounds better than the Lotus Evora V6, Fype V6 or the 296 V6?

That's why it's silly.

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Bankai

· #54 · 13 d ago (Edited)

mkraft3003 said:
Ford GT?

I'd forgotten about the GT. It's does sound good, for a V6.

xero said:
You already alluded to the two obvious reasons - it's subjective and depends on the exhaust.

That aside V8's aren't only produced for sports cars. Ever listen to the V8 in the previous gen Land cruiser with a GPF filter? Maybe the Nissan Patrol? You, subjectively even, think it sounds better than the Lotus Evora V6, Fype V6 or the 296 V6?

That's why it's silly.

I thought it was obvious that they were talking about sports cars.

But to answer your question, I think a Y62 patrol with a muffler delete sounds much better than all 3 of the v6 cars you listed. I think there are definitely outliers, but on a whole, for me, V6s almost always sound lackluster or bad.

mkraft3003

Discussion Starter · #55 · 13 d ago

Bankai said:
I'd forgotten about the GT. It's does sound good, for a V6.

I thought it was obvious that they were talking about sports cars.

But to answer your question, I think a Y62 patrol with a muffler delete sounds much better than all 3 of the v6 cars you listed. I think there are definitely outliers, but on a whole, for me, V6s almost always sound lackluster or bad.

Not sure there is any surprise that a V8 sounds better than a V6. V10 sounds better than V8. V12 sounds better than V10. W16 sounds better than V12. That’s not to say the other exhaust are bad or don’t sound good, but more is better.
Let’s take F1 cars. The current V6 hybrids still scream and I think most would all be happy if our cars sounded like that. The V8, V10 and V12 era all sounded better

Reactions: 3

xero

· #56 · 13 d ago

Bankai said:
I'd forgotten about the GT. It's does sound good, for a V6.

I thought it was obvious that they were talking about sports cars.

But to answer your question, I think a Y62 patrol with a muffler delete sounds much better than all 3 of the v6 cars you listed. I think there are definitely outliers, but on a whole, for me, V6s almost always sound lackluster or bad.

"On the other hand, every V8 sounds good" sounds pretty clear to me, not sure how it's obvious this is limited to sports cars.

Anyway you're making my point...switching from a GPF filter to a muffler delete is as apples to oranges as a comparison gets! The point is there are other factors to consider.

The conversation isn't that V8's in general sound better than V6's in comparable applications - to this I agree but to outright say all V8's sound good and no V6 sounds great...that's something else.

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Bankai

· #57 · 13 d ago

mkraft3003 said:
Not sure there is any surprise that a V8 sounds better than a V6. V10 sounds better than V8. V12 sounds better than V10. W16 sounds better than V12. That’s not to say the other exhaust are bad or don’t sound good, but more is better.
Let’s take F1 cars. The current V6 hybrids still scream and I think most would all be happy if our cars sounded like that. The V8, V10 and V12 era all sounded better

For me the sweet spot is V8-V10, and I do love the sound of the W16. I don't like the sound of most, if not all, V12s (sacrileges, I know

), as high pitched exhaust notes just grate on me.

xero said:
"On the other hand, every V8 sounds good" sounds pretty clear to me, not sure how it's obvious this is limited to sports cars.

Anyway you're making my point...switching from a GPF filter to a muffler delete is as apples to oranges as a comparison gets! The point is there are other factors to consider.

The conversation isn't that V8's in general sound better than V6's in comparable applications - to this I agree but to outright say all V8's sound good and no V6 sounds great...that's something else.

You're comparing an SUV, with heavy exhaust sound dampening, to sports cars, engineered for sound... You started the apples to oranges comparison, my friend. But my point stands, sound preference is subjective, and telling someone that their preference is silly is, well, silly. No matter what you assume, based on your own preferences, you have no way of proving that that user doesn't actually prefer all V8s to all V6s.

invisiblewave

· #58 · 13 d ago

mkraft3003 said:
Not sure there is any surprise that a V8 sounds better than a V6. V10 sounds better than V8. V12 sounds better than V10. W16 sounds better than V12. That’s not to say the other exhaust are bad or don’t sound good, but more is better.
Let’s take F1 cars. The current V6 hybrids still scream and I think most would all be happy if our cars sounded like that. The V8, V10 and V12 era all sounded better

I'm not sure the F1 example is a good one. They might sound better than other road going V6 engines, but compared to the previous NA engines, they sound terrible. Is it the cylinder count that's important, or is turbocharging the real problem?

xero

· #59 · 13 d ago

Bankai said:
For me the sweet spot is V8-V10, and I do love the sound of the W16. I don't like the sound of most, if not all, V12s (sacrileges, I know ), as high pitched exhaust notes just grate on me.

You're comparing an SUV, with heavy exhaust sound dampening, to sports cars, engineered for sound... You started the apples to oranges comparison, my friend. But my point stands, sound preference is subjective, and telling someone that their preference is silly is, well, silly. No matter what you assume, based on your own preferences, you have no way of proving that that user doesn't actually prefer all V8s to all V6s.

Ironically you keep making my point but the need to be right stops you realising it. The sound a car makes isn't down to just the number of cylinders it has! To outright say all V8's sound good (regardless of application as you've just stated) makes no sense. if you choose to still not see that then cool...not flogging this horse any more.

Reactions: 1

mkraft3003

Discussion Starter · #60 · 13 d ago

invisiblewave said:
I'm not sure the F1 example is a good one. They might sound better than other road going V6 engines, but compared to the previous NA engines, they sound terrible. Is it the cylinder count that's important, or is turbocharging the real problem?

Was trying to point out that the V6 hybrid still sounds great but the V8, V10 and V12 all sounded better. Wasn’t trying to compare to road cars as there is no comparison. Completely agree that a F1 V12 makes the new V6 hybrid sound terrible.

I think cylinder count and turbocharging both combine to be the problem. N/A engines sound better than their equivalent turbocharged versions.

On a separate note, last month I added a Taycan GTS to the stable and as I’ve gotten older I sometimes enjoy the silence (especially when in stop/go traffic). Note, I did say “sometimes” as other times the kid in me prefers the scream of an exhaust and waking the neighbors up. Lol.

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