McLaren Life banner

21 - 36 of 36 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
24 Posts
its odd to see lenders not putting on a tighter grip... clearly there are issues.
The finance deals were backed by McLaren themselves. McLaren will have to stump up the depreciation shortfall in 2-3 years time when all the cars get handed back to the lender. The lender can't lose here.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
105 Posts
...and you forgot about the 600LT which is the best car i have ever driven in the line up. Not limited numbers, just kept churning them out for a limited time frame which killed exclusivity.
This isn't just a Mclaren related problem in terms of turning out too many "special vehicles". Look at the Pista and SVJ. Ferrari is pumping out Pista's left and right as long as people keep ordering them, no set number. SVJ is 900 coupes and 900 roadsters if I recall? So a total of 1,800 SVJ's... This is not just Mclaren specific. All the main exotic players are pumping out quite a lot of vehicles. Especially these "spacial edition" vehicles which aren't even that special since they make so many of them. Economics 101 supply and demand, not that difficult to understand. Only so many people in the world willing to pay big $$ for limited edition vehicles, and with so many exotic companies pumping these things out like hotcakes, they are not in high demand. Therefore lots of them available on the market or allocations for them available to almost anyone, and therefore not all them are sold, simple as that.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
24 Posts
This isn't just a Mclaren related problem in terms of turning out too many "special vehicles". Look at the Pista and SVJ. Ferrari is pumping out Pista's left and right as long as people keep ordering them, no set number. SVJ is 900 coupes and 900 roadsters if I recall? So a total of 1,800 SVJ's... This is not just Mclaren specific. All the main exotic players are pumping out quite a lot of vehicles. Especially these "spacial edition" vehicles which aren't even that special since they make so many of them. Economics 101 supply and demand, not that difficult to understand. Only so many people in the world willing to pay big $$ for limited edition vehicles, and with so many exotic companies pumping these things out like hotcakes, they are not in high demand. Therefore lots of them available on the market or allocations for them available to almost anyone, and therefore not all them are sold, simple as that.
‘As long as people keep ordering them’ Yep you said it 👍

This is the issue here!
Lots of late 600’s were not customer orders. They were churned out and sat at the dealers, hence the 50k of list + slamming finance deals.

Are there any new Pista’s or SVJ‘s with the same incentive lurking at dealers?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
119 Posts
One would hope that the loan came with some heavy conditions and at least a management spill to sort this mess out. McLaren needs to concentrate on its own products and brand instead of trying to become Ferrari. Their products are best in class and their tech and single focus on weight reduction are incredible assets that should be their uniqueness.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,057 Posts
‘As long as people keep ordering them’ Yep you said it 👍

This is the issue here!
Lots of late 600’s were not customer orders. They were churned out and sat at the dealers, hence the 50k of list + slamming finance deals.

Are there any new Pista’s or SVJ‘s with the same incentive lurking at dealers?
There is a lot of gamesmanship with other marque dealers that the average enthusiast doesn't know.

Car forums are full of people who talk about depreciation and many topics that they have very little understanding of. The ones who do have this understanding do not participate or watch without posting.

No marque has any type of standard that a customer has to be named as part of an order.

Ferrari dealers and porsche dealers have an expansive network of people they sell to who are re-sellers, brokers, middle men, exporters. They move inventory this way (even many new cars including pistas/svj's). They would sell a discounted car to those types before they would sell to a regular retail customer at that same price. Those re-sellers, brokers, middle men, exporters are missing on the mclaren side of things. Those types corner the market with deep pockets and don't just bring cars to auctions, etc. They buy and hold and infiltrate all types of social media trying to pump up their cars.

Porsche GT cars and Ferrari cars are starting to feel the bite because those parties are starting to disappear or not stepping up to the plate to take inventory from the dealers. What people consider investors/flippers are really third party re-sellers, etc.

Case in point; One broker is offering me a brand new Pista. That Pista came through a franchised dealer who has a network of brokers who buy cars from them and flip to real customers. The broker couldn't get their customer finance approved. The car then got re-sold to another broker. The car has changed 3 hands and still not sold to a retail customer. Normally, this car would still be sitting at the ferrari dealer unsold. Now a third party broker is stuck with it.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
24 Posts
Thanks very informative 👍

Why are the brokers, resellers missing from the McLaren market.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,057 Posts
Do these brokers sell at a discount or jacked up price?
It's a dirty game that is played.

Dealers that don't sell over MSRP sell to re-seller/broker at MSRP or even lower (in demand/hot cars) - then share profits with dealer or dealer personnel.

Dealers can't sell to other dealers so they use middle men who register in Montana and then sold by brokers

Dealers using third party leasing companies to make a car used and then sold to brokers who export to other countries.

Re-sellers brokers not disclosing carfax to see where the car was initially titled from or which dealer sold them the car.

Franchised dealers taking cars from manufacture to juice their selling numbers and then sell them wholesale or $5K above wholesale to re-sellers who then sell to retail customers

Dealers that have flooring (line of credit issues) and need to move inventory quickly will use the third party re-sellers.

Re-sellers buying on behalf of established customer base. The re-sellers never turn down allocations from franchised dealers and then sell above MSRP to retail customers.

The people who talk about depreciation or lack of it are those re-sellers/brokers, etc. who corner the market and buy these cars and then get stuck with them and have to sell below what they bought (they are the ones who are generally all over social media slamming manufactures/cars for too much volume, etc.).

Re-sellers/brokers got burned with Mac purchases and sold below what they bought them for to re-sell so they don't take cars at anything above wholesale from dealers. Since they have a lower cost basis then easier for them to discount and re-sell and then cause all the people who examine auto trader to point at depreciation or lack of it to certain marques. Mac dealers and other franchised dealers won't even sell you the car at the same price they sell to re-sellers.

Car auctions are manipulated. A lot of them aren't even real sales when they are outside the norm. It makes zero sense for a car to be sold at higher value at an auction than what dealers are selling it for. it's almost like they are trying to set a benchmark for a sales number that impacts other sales of those cars.

People on car forums who don't know any better seem to take this fake news/manipulation to heart and keep posting over and over again this nonsense. The real owners who have been doing this for some time then figure out how all of this works.

Go to third party re-seller websites and see low mileage cars that are listed for sale. See who the dealers were or where they were first titled and then it'll start making sense to you.

fwiw; a person who made $400K on a TDF is in a worse economic position in terms of their car purchases in the last five years with ferrari then a person who lost $200K on a Senna with Mclaren. However, the talking heads on car forums will say that TDF's are holding well and Sennas aren't.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
6,873 Posts
The finance deals were backed by McLaren themselves. McLaren will have to stump up the depreciation shortfall in 2-3 years time when all the cars get handed back to the lender. The lender can't lose here.
That’s the conclusion I have come to, as well. Especially considering the inflated residuals required to move the leased cars. This is quite literally the other shoe to drop, at least in the U.S. market. Gonna be interesting.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
277 Posts
It's a dirty game that is played.

Dealers that don't sell over MSRP sell to re-seller/broker at MSRP or even lower (in demand/hot cars) - then share profits with dealer or dealer personnel.

Dealers can't sell to other dealers so they use middle men who register in Montana and then sold by brokers

Dealers using third party leasing companies to make a car used and then sold to brokers who export to other countries.

Re-sellers brokers not disclosing carfax to see where the car was initially titled from or which dealer sold them the car.

Franchised dealers taking cars from manufacture to juice their selling numbers and then sell them wholesale or $5K above wholesale to re-sellers who then sell to retail customers

Dealers that have flooring (line of credit issues) and need to move inventory quickly will use the third party re-sellers.

Re-sellers buying on behalf of established customer base. The re-sellers never turn down allocations from franchised dealers and then sell above MSRP to retail customers.

The people who talk about depreciation or lack of it are those re-sellers/brokers, etc. who corner the market and buy these cars and then get stuck with them and have to sell below what they bought (they are the ones who are generally all over social media slamming manufactures/cars for too much volume, etc.).

Re-sellers/brokers got burned with Mac purchases and sold below what they bought them for to re-sell so they don't take cars at anything above wholesale from dealers. Since they have a lower cost basis then easier for them to discount and re-sell and then cause all the people who examine auto trader to point at depreciation or lack of it to certain marques. Mac dealers and other franchised dealers won't even sell you the car at the same price they sell to re-sellers.

Car auctions are manipulated. A lot of them aren't even real sales when they are outside the norm. It makes zero sense for a car to be sold at higher value at an auction than what dealers are selling it for. it's almost like they are trying to set a benchmark for a sales number that impacts other sales of those cars.

People on car forums who don't know any better seem to take this fake news/manipulation to heart and keep posting over and over again this nonsense. The real owners who have been doing this for some time then figure out how all of this works.

Go to third party re-seller websites and see low mileage cars that are listed for sale. See who the dealers were or where they were first titled and then it'll start making sense to you.

fwiw; a person who made $400K on a TDF is in a worse economic position in terms of their car purchases in the last five years with ferrari then a person who lost $200K on a Senna with Mclaren. However, the talking heads on car forums will say that TDF's are holding well and Sennas aren't.
Very interesting info. Thanks for posting. Can you clarify on the TDF vs. Senna comment? I didn’t quite follow that and probably need it laid out in crayon. 😁
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
3,732 Posts
Very interesting info. Thanks for posting. Can you clarify on the TDF vs. Senna comment? I didn’t quite follow that and probably need it laid out in crayon. 😁
I believe what was meant by

'fwiw; a person who made $400K on a TDF is in a worse economic position in terms of their car purchases in the last five years with ferrari then a person who lost $200K on a Senna with Mclaren. However, the talking heads on car forums will say that TDF's are holding well and Sennas aren't.'

was that, in order to get a TDF from Ferrari at the official price, one first had to have bought a number of their standard cars, and the losses on them would have more than offset the gain on the TDF.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
24 Posts
That’s the conclusion I have come to, as well. Especially considering the inflated residuals required to move the leased cars. This is quite literally the other shoe to drop, at least in the U.S. market. Gonna be interesting.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Same in UK market, definitely going to be interesting.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
2,505 Posts
I believe what was meant by was that, in order to get a TDF from Ferrari at the official price, one first had to have bought a number of their standard cars, and the losses on them would have more than offset the gain on the TDF.
Yes. This is absolutely the case. Even the best, and most connected, Ferrari customers are told to play the game if they want to stay in the game. A friend, who had already bought two lesser Ferraris, was told he had to buy a used V8 Lusso demo car from his dealer in order to get a Pista Spider, that was arriving shortly, at MSRP. Of course, because it’s a new car, a Ferrari frowns on the dealer selling above MSRP, so they will only sell it with another car. He offered to buy a more desirable used Ferrari AND the Pista and they said no. Buy the demo Lusso (that he’ll lose his shirt on) or you can’t buy the Pista. If it has been a V12 Lusso he would have done it but this is their only offer as they’re desperate to get rid of the V8.

I bought a V12 FF so I could move up the delivery date of my 458 Spider. But I loved that FF and kept it for 5 years - 2 years longer than I kept the 458 Spider because I got my first McLaren (12C Spider) a few months after the 458 and fell in love with the feeling you get driving with a McLaren’s carbon fiber chassis, advanced suspensions and high revving turbo engines. I still love both brands.

Despite the very turbulent times they’re in, I’m confident McLaren will emerge from this and eventually be back in good shape. They will, for sure, retune their plans and policies to the new realities of the market.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
31 Posts
why does Ferrari have to be so diffucult to purchase a a car? I've always heard of stories of "trying" to get higher tiered cars, just seems stupid to me.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
244 Posts
Some P car dealerships are doing that and I laughed as one dealer you can buy/order a GT car without this two step method by ferrari.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
742 Posts
Despite the very turbulent times they’re in, I’m confident McLaren will emerge from this and eventually be back in good shape. They will, for sure, retune their plans and policies to the new realities of the market.
They can start by cutting production of the 765. They need to bring value and exclusivity back into the mix. Whoring out product is a short term strategy. Customers need to wait 6 months to get a new car vs. having every model relatively available.
 
21 - 36 of 36 Posts
Top