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2019 McLaren 600LT Chicane Effect
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Well regulators are already allowing Waymo to use their taxis in a bunch of cities. It is literally here and now. Level 5 is a red herring, it's meaningful to geeks. Level 4 is what matters in the big way. We are not far from it, IMO, but then again, until you can get hammered in the back and the car is doing what it needs to (without packing an emergency stuck pack), it's all noise.

My only point is, there is a chance you might be surprised that it's not as far off as you think when it comes.

I for one look forward to it. While I love love LOVE driving myself, there are times on long road trips where setting it to auto and taking a nap would be super cool.
FYI, you can take a Waymo fully hammered now in certain places and it's perfectly legal as the car/robot is fully liable for anything that happens. However, it still has to be in the operational zones. These robo taxis are also the only ones allowed to take minors as well, as companies such as Uber and Lyft are consider unsafe due to drivers not being vetted for being with a minor alone.

Another interesting tidbit, while SanFran happens to be the biggest city near where most of these development houses are, it is also the worst city in the US to drive. Everything from pedestrian always has right of way with the nations 3rd highest homeless per capita population (there is a problem with people jumping out from behind a box truck to intentionally get hit), narrow lanes, weird 1 one streets, hills, mismatched traffic lights/signage, construction, double parking, poor pavement conditions, weather such as fog and rain, etc, all help make SF the place to be for the ultimate litmus test if its ready for nationwide release. Even then, some other variables such as extreme cold, snow, ice, etc are also of concern, which places like the NE and Midwest need resolved before companies can fully deploy nationwide.
 

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Over 60% SoC
I was only able to do one hot lap because the brakes were dangerously overheated at the end of this lap. The car is severely underbraked.
As for the car itself I really can't stress enough that this car doesn't belong anywhere near a track or near 10 tenths driving.
The power steering couldn't keep up. Any fast steering corrections were fully unassisted which made driving at the limit very difficult.
The Plaid doesn't have suspension stiff or sophisticated enough to deal with its mass.
 

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I think the avg buyer for a Tesla is wildly different from a typical buyer of a luxury sedan. They are purchasing based on the appeal of Tesla's hype as the forerunner of electric cars, not because they want a luxury car. They are probably younger, probably work in tech, and probably not a gearhead, all factors which lend to appreciating not disliking Tesla's infotainment and minimalist design and prioritizing it in their purchase decision. They probably don't even care that much about performance, the only ones who do seem to be the Tesla internet fanboys (who in most cases don't even own a Tesla). IMO, there is really very little overlap between the two markets and the rest can be explained by people with disposable incomes wanting to try a novelty. If true, this also explains why you were able to get bumped up in the waiting list. The avg buyer doesn't want a Plaid and the ones who are considering a car at that price range have different priorities.
Wow
:)
 

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Discussion Starter · #147 ·
Tire Wheel Vehicle Car Automotive tire

Model S Plaid Carbon Ceramic Brake Kit
$20,000
Email me when this item is available to order.
Description
Available by mid-2022: The Model S Plaid Carbon Ceramic Brake Kit
Designed for the ultimate track experience, the Model S Plaid Carbon Ceramic Brake Kit is a complete hardware package that delivers maximum, repeatable stopping power during high-performance driving.
The kit includes all-new carbon-silicon carbide rotors that provide maximum high-temperature durability and heat management, one-piece forged calipers with high-performance pads and high-temperature brake fluid.
Includes:
  • 2x 410 x 40mm carbon-silicon carbide front rotors
  • 2x 410 x 32mm carbon-silicon carbide rear rotors
  • 2x 6-piston one-piece, forged front calipers
  • 2x 4-piston one-piece, forged rear calipers
  • 2x integrated, caliper-mounted parking brakes
  • 4x high-performance front brake pads
  • 4x high-performance rear brake pads
  • 1x bottle of high-temperature brake fluid
Note: This package is only compatible with Model S Plaid vehicles equipped with 21” Arachnid wheels.
 

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View attachment 216334
Model S Plaid Carbon Ceramic Brake Kit
$20,000
Email me when this item is available to order.
Description
Available by mid-2022: The Model S Plaid Carbon Ceramic Brake Kit
Designed for the ultimate track experience, the Model S Plaid Carbon Ceramic Brake Kit is a complete hardware package that delivers maximum, repeatable stopping power during high-performance driving.
The kit includes all-new carbon-silicon carbide rotors that provide maximum high-temperature durability and heat management, one-piece forged calipers with high-performance pads and high-temperature brake fluid.
Includes:
  • 2x 410 x 40mm carbon-silicon carbide front rotors
  • 2x 410 x 32mm carbon-silicon carbide rear rotors
  • 2x 6-piston one-piece, forged front calipers
  • 2x 4-piston one-piece, forged rear calipers
  • 2x integrated, caliper-mounted parking brakes
  • 4x high-performance front brake pads
  • 4x high-performance rear brake pads
  • 1x bottle of high-temperature brake fluid
Note: This package is only compatible with Model S Plaid vehicles equipped with 21” Arachnid wheels.
That's a McLaren price!
 

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Discussion Starter · #151 ·

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Discussion Starter · #153 · (Edited)
Yes but will the UP upgrade allow you to unlock 200 mph?
Not sure - Think would if UP did the brake install as they work closely with Tesla. Also think tires might need upgrade for 200mph.
 

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The BeV stuff just blows me away.

The Chiron is an 1,100 Kwatt output ICE. Using 30% efficiency gives you 3600 Kwatts of fuel burn which means you are rejecting K2500 watts in wasted heat. In the video, they were using something less than 10% waste. It will be very interesting to see where all of this goes as batteries continue to improve.

edited to increase power values by three orders of magnitude - I forgot the K
That is rejecting 2.5 mega watt :0
 

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2012 MP4-12C
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The BeV stuff just blows me away.

The Chiron is an 1,100 watt output ICE. Using 30% efficiency gives you 3600 watts of fuel burn which means you are rejecting 2500 watts in wasted heat. In the video, they were using something less than 10% waste. It will be very interesting to see where all of this goes as batteries continue to improve.
By the way Lola, did you see there is an option to put carbon cermic brake son the plaid. That might (expensively) address your one issue with the plaid.
 

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By the way Lola, did you see there is an option to put carbon cermic brake son the plaid. That might (expensively) address your one issue with the plaid.
By the way Lola, did you see there is an option to put carbon cermic brake son the plaid. That might (expensively) address your one issue with the plaid.
I don't know where they stand now, but historically the issue with carbon-ceramic discs has been that, when they overheat, the carbon material oxidises and turns into a gas, leaving porosity behind. As the mass diminishes it becomes a vicious circle. The same thing can happen with carbon-carbon, which is why adequate cooling is crucial. When iron rotor material overheats it loses some of its frictional effectiveness, but at least when it cools down the disc is still there.
 

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8,722 Posts
I don't know where they stand now, but historically the issue with carbon-ceramic discs has been that, when they overheat, the carbon material oxidises and turns into a gas, leaving porosity behind. As the mass diminishes it becomes a vicious circle. The same thing can happen with carbon-carbon, which is why adequate cooling is crucial. When iron rotor material overheats it loses some of its frictional effectiveness, but at least when it cools down the disc is still there.
I'm personally a steel brakes fan. Way cheaper, just as effective.

Only reason to have carbon ceramics is if you truly race.

Even if you track regularly, the steels are a better option. Way cheaper to maintain. Thats why so many people that track their Porsches swap out the ceramics and move to steel.
 
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