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Discussion Starter · #41 ·
Yes, and the battery development and timeline was probably unrealistic to start with. This is the same reason they increased the prices of the solar roof tiles by so much. They underperformed to their speculation of how they could curb cost and come out with the solution and they now had to rebaseline it to actual cost. Tesla has a habit of making detailed claims far before their testing and development is complete. For example, their first home energy storage was generation 2 before it ever shipped the first unit.
Yes. To some extent it is a matter of taste - by now we all ‘know’ Elon. He gets excited about new ideas and likes to share the ideas in real time. For some people that’s ok others not.
Hopefully the new battery production gets solved soon and we have Cybertrucks, Roadsters and Tesla - Semi-trucks available :)
 

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This leaves me a little sad
A car with plaid in the name and has absolutely no emotion has car enthusiasts thinking ice is dead
no way an electric appliance will replace the thunder of a V8 or the shriek of a V12. I’d rather drive a slower ICE than an appliance that only accelerates hard. Any road course and a top end ICE car will destroy the appliance in 10 or more laps. My friend was excited about a TESLA and I told him to come race my 2016 VIPER ACR E 10 laps & see what happens:devilish:
 

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I am a sceptic when it comes to the green credentials of current electric cars. The technology should produce higher performance cars, which is my main interest
‘if your local power plant is oil or coal powered then the electric car cannot really claim green credentials. Most of these cars have lots of plastic which is made from oil of course. I’m sure it’s politicians who want electric cars because they are easier to shut off thus easier to control people.
 

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pick your poison
pollution of the air
contamination of the soil and water
there is no way out
EV sounds great on the surface, but we as humans are in a no win battle with destruction of mother earth.
a modern ICE engine exhaust is cleaner than the air in most large cities. USA has done more to conserve nature than any other country while China is #1 polluter
 

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As Thomas Sowell likes to say: “There are no solutions, just compromises.”

Some better than others.

I find the whole debate very interesting. 80-90% of all goods you buy are transported by semi-trucks at some point in the delivery process. Airplanes are dirty as well, with no reasonable solution in sight for decades. China pollutes like no ones business! No one seems to care about pollution when they buy Nike shoes manufactured in dirty China, nor do they care much under what conditions most of the products they buy were manufactured.

None of this is to say that we shouldn’t try to be better...but hypocrisy lies everywhere.

Lastly...there are very few things we do for the pure necessity of it...most of the time we seek to enjoy things...even when they are a necessity. You could just eat rice if you wanted ‘sustenance.’ But you may prefer a steak instead. Couldn’t we all just make basic clothes...but instead we need sweat shop labor, with pollution inducing factories so we can have sneakers, shirts and LV bags.

There’s more to cars/driving than just getting from point A to B.

What’s the point of my silly diatribe? Humans don’t ‘really’ care about Mother Earth. There’s no serious urgency here. They only act like they care about it. People are ok if they can make incremental or minor progress in pollution, so long as it doesn’t infringe upon their ‘want’ based lifestyle...then it’s ok. Last I checked Elon Musk owns a G650ER. Not exactly a bastion of pollution free travel. We’re all guilty of it on some level. For most people, ‘righteousness’ might as well be called hypocrisy. i.e - I’ll do a little bit of good over here...so I can justify the terrible things I’m doing over there. This is why getting lectures from the ‘I care about the planet’ crowd gets old...It’s very convenient. Have less kids...more people puts more stress on the planet. I’m a fan of EV...but not because of the ahem...’green’ aspects...
Cheers!!
The biggest bit of hypocrisy is in pretending anyone cares about the planet. The planet will survive us, loosely quoting George carlin. The planet isn’t biased against plastic, or any kind of pollution. Again quoting him, for all we know, the planet wanted us to make plastic, because it couldn’t make it itself, and the planet plus plastic is just great.

If we are really being honest, all we care about is if the planet is healthy enough to sustain us comfortably. We care about whether or not we survive, not the planet. And why should we? Ultimately the planet is a big rock. If you take a broader view it’s a rock with a lot of animals and vegetation, and us. It’s a vehicle for our lives and the lives of other wonderful things on it.

But it’s just that, a vehicle. The real problem is we don’t have any others, so we don’t want to use it in a way that destroys it for the small amount of time that we’re on it, and perhaps more importantly, for the long amount of time others after us may need to enjoy it in their fair turn.

But it sure as **** no one really cares about the planet. It’s a care about us and our progeny and the progeny of other life here, and how that relates to our comfort.

Interstingly, the planet really doesn’t give a **** about life either. Before we were around many species when extinct. Countless species. Way more species than we could ever have pushed into extinction. The planet is very neutral at best on this, and outright hostile if you’re objective.

Ultimately everyone claiming their amazing virtue for caring about the planet, to me self identifies as a lying pompous narcissist too afraid to be honest about their true motives.

All that said, I feel the planet is like a public toilet at times. You should leave it in at least as nice as shape as you found it, but most people don’t. They piss all over it, make a mess, and leave thinking that it’s someone else’s problem. It’s a problem of obliviousness perhaps more than selfishness. Maybe it would do all of us some good to be forced to clean a few toilets ourselves.
 

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I can. And I’d like to think he would cut right through it and not bend to it like all the rest have.
While this is deviating from the topic at hand, I think a couple have not bent over backwards to the status quo and still make fun of all aspects of society.


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While this is deviating from the topic at hand, I think a couple have not bent over backwards to the status quo and still make fun of all aspects of society.


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Bill Bur is the only one I can think of off hand but even he has mainly stayed quiet on most touchy subjects. Sadly many of my other favorites have, to my mind, joined (too many weak minds to list) and/or given in to (Chapelle) and/or been cancelled (Louis CK) by the mob. As always, YMMV.
 

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Bill Bur is the only one I can think of off hand but even he has mainly stayed quiet on most touchy subjects. Sadly many of my other favorites have, to my mind, joined (too many weak minds to list) and/or given in to (Chapelle) and/or been cancelled (Louis CK) by the mob. As always, YMMV.
I was referring to Burr actually! And you better believe that CK is going to make a comeback sooner or later, God I’d would love to hear his social commentary on the pandemic, cancel culture etc..

Back on topic; do you all think that Plaid+ was cancelled due to the 4680 cell batteries or because it would cannibalize Roadster sales? Cause I don’t buy the whole ‘it’s not needed’ comment by Musk.


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Discussion Starter · #52 ·

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This article from April 27….. “not needed” sounds better than can’t do :)
Can't do is seeming more evident with the price increase of the standard Plaid also. Which by the way is why you don't come out with your MSRP several years before release. This won't upset the fans though. I just don't like Tesla's practices, great strides in electric powertrain and relatively nice cars.
 

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Discussion Starter · #54 ·
Yes as you are aware the ‘can’t do’ at this time was in reference to volume manufacturing of the 4680 batteries required for new Plaid+, roadsters etc.
Price increases have more to do with demand-supply for Tesla vehicles.
 

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Did I see a figure of a 3,400Lbs for the Roadster a few posts back? Right... Wasn't Elon quoted as saying in the past that the Roadster will have a 200Kwh battery pack? A quick search results in this article...

Tesla Battery Weight Overview – All Models - enrg.io.

...states a battery pack weight of 1,836 Lbs...just for the battery!

If the Nevera has a 120Kwh pack and weighs 4,700Lbs and the Lotus Evija is kicking it back to a 75Kwh pack just to meet a target of 3,700 Lbs - both cars constructed mostly of costly carbon fiber, how is the Roadster that costs 200K (and made mostly of?) going to be anywhere near 'light'?

See you all back in the Gordon Murray thread...
 

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Did I see a figure of a 3,400Lbs for the Roadster a few posts back? Right... Wasn't Elon quoted as saying in the past that the Roadster will have a 200Kwh battery pack? A quick search results in this article...

Tesla Battery Weight Overview – All Models - enrg.io.

...states a battery pack weight of 1,836 Lbs...just for the battery!

If the Nevera has a 120Kwh pack and weighs 4,700Lbs and the Lotus Evija is kicking it back to a 75Kwh pack just to meet a target of 3,700 Lbs - both cars constructed mostly of costly carbon fiber, how is the Roadster that costs 200K (and made mostly of?) going to be anywhere near 'light'?

See you all back in the Gordon Murray thread...
The current Model 3 entry level (rear wheel drive) is 3400lbs. I agree with you, I don't see how the roadster avoids being 4000lbs and has a 500 mile range. Would LOVE to be wrong, but seems highly unlikely.
 

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Stupid clip, stupid caption ^^^^^. Testing for two days and they show a clip with a pro in a race prepped car passing people new to the track... They are/were grasping at straws with this one.
 

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Discussion Starter · #59 ·
Stupid clip, stupid caption ^^^^^. Testing for two days and they show a clip with a pro in a race prepped car passing people new to the track... They are/were grasping at straws with this one.
Yes definitely a track prepped version set up for Pikes Peak run - Plaid was outfitted with Yokohama Advan slicks. The new motor seems to have much less HP drop off during a lap.
 
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