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Solar panels aren't made from magic. They are made from chemicals and minerals that are mined. None of it is perfect.
 

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As Thomas Sowell likes to say: “There are no solutions, just compromises.”

Some better than others.

I find the whole debate very interesting. 80-90% of all goods you buy are transported by semi-trucks at some point in the delivery process. Airplanes are dirty as well, with no reasonable solution in sight for decades. China pollutes like no ones business! No one seems to care about pollution when they buy Nike shoes manufactured in dirty China, nor do they care much under what conditions most of the products they buy were manufactured.

None of this is to say that we shouldn’t try to be better...but hypocrisy lies everywhere.

Lastly...there are very few things we do for the pure necessity of it...most of the time we seek to enjoy things...even when they are a necessity. You could just eat rice if you wanted ‘sustenance.’ But you may prefer a steak instead. Couldn’t we all just make basic clothes...but instead we need sweat shop labor, with pollution inducing factories so we can have sneakers, shirts and LV bags.

There’s more to cars/driving than just getting from point A to B.

What’s the point of my silly diatribe? Humans don’t ‘really’ care about Mother Earth. There’s no serious urgency here. They only act like they care about it. People are ok if they can make incremental or minor progress in pollution, so long as it doesn’t infringe upon their ‘want’ based lifestyle...then it’s ok. Last I checked Elon Musk owns a G650ER. Not exactly a bastion of pollution free travel. We’re all guilty of it on some level. For most people, ‘righteousness’ might as well be called hypocrisy. i.e - I’ll do a little bit of good over here...so I can justify the terrible things I’m doing over there. This is why getting lectures from the ‘I care about the planet’ crowd gets old...It’s very convenient. Have less kids...more people puts more stress on the planet. I’m a fan of EV...but not because of the ahem...’green’ aspects...
Cheers!!
 

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The first solar panel or hydro plant isn't green either at first. The initial development of green technologies requires dirty inputs. You can't improve renewable with only renewable inputs in the beginning. While current EVs might not be super green, you'll never have green cars until you develop them. No one will develop batteries and green infrastructure if there are no cars to put them in etc.

The goal is to pollute in the short term in order to not pollute in the long term. We're making huge improvements in green technology and infrastructure and we will eventually get to where we need to be. This is just the nature of technology and R&D. In theory we should be able to develop them first, but humans and their social systems are flawed and do not allow it to happen the ideal way unfortunately.
Agreed. I fully expect that the next car that I buy will be electric. I just have issues with chequebook "Greens" (lots in California), as I do with those that remove catalytic convertors.
 

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What’s the point of my silly diatribe? Humans don’t ‘really’ care about Mother Earth. There’s no serious urgency here. They only act like they care about it. People are ok if they can make incremental or minor progress in pollution, so long as it doesn’t infringe upon their ‘want’ based lifestyle...then it’s ok. Last I checked Elon Musk owns a G650ER. Not exactly a bastion of pollution free travel. We’re all guilty of it on some level. For most people, ‘righteousness’ might as well be called hypocrisy. i.e - I’ll do a little bit of good over here...so I can justify the terrible things I’m doing over there. This is why getting lectures from the ‘I care about the planet’ crowd gets old...It’s very convenient. Have less kids...more people puts more stress on the planet. I’m a fan of EV...but not because of the ahem...’green’ aspects...
Cheers!!
That's a bit of a blanket statement, though it may or may not be accurate. Of course we waste energy on things that serve no scientific purpose, but that's kind of what it is to be human. I don't think anyone would argue the goal of human life is just to physically exist and reproduce. I acknowledge I contribute to pollution purely for my entertainment/enjoyment, but I care very much about the environment. I am a fan of EVs because they are part of the solution to sustainability at some point in the future.

We know life as we know it on Earth is doomed. It's unquestionable. The Sun will destroy Earth. Maybe we will evolve before then or just die out. Who knows. I believe though that the goal is to sustain a diverse amount of nature and life on Earth for as long as possible, and to create as little pain and suffering for everything and everyone as long as we can. We all know we're doomed, but we should make the best of it. We can either kill everything now or kill everything later. I think the later, the better.
 

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Someone needs to be on a different forum.
 

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That's a bit of a blanket statement, though it may or may not be accurate. Of course we waste energy on things that serve no scientific purpose, but that's kind of what it is to be human. I don't think anyone would argue the goal of human life is just to physically exist and reproduce. I acknowledge I contribute to pollution purely for my entertainment/enjoyment, but I care very much about the environment. I am a fan of EVs because they are part of the solution to sustainability at some point in the future.

We know life as we know it on Earth is doomed. It's unquestionable. The Sun will destroy Earth. Maybe we will evolve before then or just die out. Who knows. I believe though that the goal is to sustain a diverse amount of nature and life on Earth for as long as possible, and to create as little pain and suffering for everything and everyone as long as we can. We all know we're doomed, but we should make the best of it. We can either kill everything now or kill everything later. I think the later, the better.
There’s no way to reply without getting into an ego induced pissing contest. So I’ll keep it brief. Actions speak louder than words. Walk around your home. (Likely a larger than average home if you own a McLaren)...now count how many things you own that were made in China...by far the worst pollution producing country on the planet. Then look in the mirror and tell it that you ‘care VERY much about the environment.’

Owning an EV just makes people feel better about their ‘mostly’ symbolic caring for the planet. And it’s convenient. People who really care would truly be environmentally conscious in ALL aspects of their life...not just the convenient ones.

Nonetheless...I’m pretty excited to see what the Plaid can do...I’m sure it’ll be impressive. No doubt EV will continue to evolve in the next decade...I wonder how many laps it’ll be able to compete in a row...2-3?
 

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There’s no way to reply without getting into an ego induced pissing contest. So I’ll keep it brief. Actions speak louder than words. Walk around your home. (Likely a larger than average home if you own a McLaren)...now count how many things you own that were made in China...by far the worst pollution producing country on the planet. Then look in the mirror and tell it that you ‘care VERY much about the environment.’

Owning an EV just makes people feel better about their ‘mostly’ symbolic caring for the planet. And it’s convenient. People who really care would truly be environmentally conscious in ALL aspects of their life...not just the convenient ones.

Nonetheless...I’m pretty excited to see what the Plaid can do...I’m sure it’ll be impressive. No doubt EV will continue to evolve in the next decade...I wonder how many laps it’ll be able to compete in a row...2-3?
With how you describe it, it's literally impossible to care about anything. It's literally impossible for people to act on everything single detail in life that runs contrary to what you care about. "If you're not picking up every single piece of litter as you walk around Manhattan, you don't care about the environment" is pretty much what you're saying. "You claim to care about refugees displaced by war, yet you have 2 empty bedrooms and more than enough room in your living room to sleep 12 refugees in your house..."

You can care about stuff and even contribute to the solutions without dedicating your existence to the cause. Even the biggest environmentalist use clothes dryers, plastics, and eat beef, all of which contribute to "unnecessary" emissions and pollution. I don't think you'll win any arguments by pointing out they use their air condition too much in the Summer and thus only care when it's convenient...
 

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Pe
With how you describe it, it's literally impossible to care about anything. It's literally impossible for people to act on everything single detail in life that runs contrary to what you care about. "If you're not picking up every single piece of litter as you walk around Manhattan, you don't care about the environment" is pretty much what you're saying. "You claim to care about refugees displaced by war, yet you have 2 empty bedrooms and more than enough room in your living room to sleep 12 refugees in your house..."

You can care about stuff and even contribute to the solutions without dedicating your existence to the cause. Even the biggest environmentalist use clothes dryers, plastics, and eat beef, all of which contribute to "unnecessary" emissions and pollution. I don't think you'll win any arguments by pointing out they use their air condition too much in the Summer and thus only care when it's convenient...
Perhaps it’s semantics at this point...and really no use in beating this horse...but the issue I took with your statement was the ‘very’ part. “I care ‘very’ much about the environment.”

When a doctor says quit smoking or you’ll die...most people quit because they care ‘very’ much about living longer. Not the same approach with the environment. 99% of people’s actions prove that.

Otherwise...I agree...we should do things to keep the planet in better shape. But I can’t say I care ‘very’ much about it because my lifestyle would make me a hypocrit. 😉👍

Sorry for derailing the thread...
 

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Even if it's a one-and-done sort of deal, if the Tesla can do that 1/4 mile and lap time with 4500 lbs in a sedan like this, then we can officially say ICE/hybrid is dead and exotics can fully move on to BEV.
‘the fat lady is doing her me-me-me-me-me’s

 

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Discussion Starter · #31 ·
Tesla Model S Plaid achieves new quarter-mile world record in 9.2 seconds
Fred Lambert
- Jun. 3rd 2021

 

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I'm still trying to figure out why it seems that no climate change activists, Friends of the Earthers, or Greenpeaceniks ever refer to, let alone suggest how to address, the real problem, which is population. We wouldn't have to worry about any of this stuff if the Earth's population were 2 billion rather than 7-going-to-10 billion, and 2 billion seems like it should be enough.
 

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I think after all the tests the plus wasn’t needed or not much of a difference. Although in cold climates I would think some wanted the longer range.
 
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What about all the people that placed deposits on the Plaid+, he’s had their money for months (interest free) for nothing.. I’m surprised people still believe in his promises.
That's one of the risks that you take by placing a deposit far in advance of a realistic production date - I wouldn't. It's not news that his claimed dates aren't achieved, but his companies do deliver humanity-changing technology.
 

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I think after all the tests the plus wasn’t needed or not much of a difference. Although in cold climates I would think some wanted the longer range.
It's not that it wasn't needed, it's that they want to stop development and found it too difficult to improve and this is a great excuse. None of these cars are ever needed.
 

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Discussion Starter · #39 ·
It's not that it wasn't needed, it's that they want to stop development and found it too difficult to improve and this is a great excuse. None of these cars are ever needed.
Hmmm think that the new battery was most of the development required to make the Plaid+ version. And Tesla is continuing the battery development …..
But as you said “none of these cars are ever needed” and as Tesla at this time has more orders for cars than it can manufacturer no reason to release this + version.
 

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Hmmm think that the new battery was most of the development required to make the Plaid+ version. And Tesla is continuing the battery development …..
But as you said “none of these cars are ever needed” and as Tesla at this time has more orders for cars than it can manufacturer no reason to release this + version.
Yes, and the battery development and timeline was probably unrealistic to start with. This is the same reason they increased the prices of the solar roof tiles by so much. They underperformed to their speculation of how they could curb cost and come out with the solution and they now had to rebaseline it to actual cost. Tesla has a habit of making detailed claims far before their testing and development is complete. For example, their first home energy storage was generation 2 before it ever shipped the first unit.
 
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