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Tesla Model S Plaid hits Laguna Seca with giant rear wing in run-up to first deliveries

Tesla Model S Plaid rear wing spotted track testing at Laguna Seca Raceway (May 14 2021, Credit: The Kilowatts)


 

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What's so magical about a 1'30 when something like Valkyrie can do a 1'19 or faster?
Well for one, the 1:30 is a 4 door giant luxury sedan. Obviously this would be considerably lower if the powertrain was in a 2 door, CF tub exotic with suitable suspension and aero etc. Secondly, a Valkyrie is likely pointless as a daily driver and is very compromised for daily use. Lastly, I never said 1:30 was the fastest or anything, but it certainly is fast enough. 1:30 is quicker than almost every road car ever made.
 

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Well for one, the 1:30 is a 4 door giant luxury sedan. Obviously this would be considerably lower if the powertrain was in a 2 door, CF tub exotic with suitable suspension and aero etc. Secondly, a Valkyrie is likely pointless as a daily driver and is very compromised for daily use. Lastly, I never said 1:30 was the fastest or anything, but it certainly is fast enough. 1:30 is quicker than almost every road car ever made.
"we can officially say ICE/hybrid is dead and exotics can fully move on to BEV."

Nah. Exotics with 11,000 rpm V12s are still not only fast enough, but far more emotional. You seriously think the Plaid S isn't compromised for daily use?
 

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"we can officially say ICE/hybrid is dead and exotics can fully move on to BEV."

Nah. Exotics with 11,000 rpm V12s are still not only fast enough, but far more emotional. You seriously think the Plaid S isn't compromised for daily use?
They also cost $3M, so who really cares about what is theoretically possible with infinite money?

I'm sure the Plaid isn't perfect, but I'm sure it's far less compromised than a Valkyrie when driving around town, over potholes, up drive ways and slopes, etc.

Valkyrie is super cool, but it's really not a road car.
 

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Exotics aren't exclusively about the performance. They are about design, emotion, and even just artificial exclusivity.

Electric has been set to outperform for years already now, this is nothing new or special. It's just being pushed out to a market ready to buy now.
 

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I’m sure the Plaid will be impressive. I’m a fan of it and see nothing wrong it...BUT, Let’s call it what it is. Emissions. Period.

How much HP does the Plaid have? 1000-1200? I’m guessing here...Go give an M5 or C63 1000HP and it’ll lap the same as the Plaid.

So let’s not act like EV has magically found a way to defy the laws of physics. Emissions restrictions on ICE have allowed EV to catch up and in some areas pass ICE. Simple.

ICE is dying because of politics...not because they can’t keep up. Weight is the enemy of performance...and EV hasn’t sorted that out yet. Which is why they struggle on the track after 1-2 laps. Along with battery tech as well.
 

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I’m sure the Plaid will be impressive. I’m a fan of it and see nothing wrong it...BUT, Let’s call it what it is. Emissions. Period.
So let’s not act like EV has magically found a way to defy the laws of physics. Emissions restrictions on ICE have allowed EV to catch up and in some areas pass ICE. Simple.
ICE is dying because of politics...not because they can’t keep up. Weight is the enemy of performance...and EV hasn’t sorted that out yet. Which is why they struggle on the track after 1-2 laps. Along with battery tech as well.
Some facts for you:
  • There is a limited supply of fossil fuels
  • Pollution kills
  • Emission controls have vastly improved the air quality in major cities (for the same level of traffic)

Electric cars offer much more scope for precisely, and simply, controlling the power at each individual wheel. It is a much more elegant solution, IMO. The issue is still the energy density of batteries (I'd like a gas trubine), yet Tesla are making pigs of cars perform. Think how much better they'll be with the 100+ years of development that ICE has had.

Frankly, we're still using basic steam age technology in car engines. As attached to the sound and nostalgia as many are, we are progressing.
 

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I’m sure the Plaid will be impressive. I’m a fan of it and see nothing wrong it...BUT, Let’s call it what it is. Emissions. Period.

How much HP does the Plaid have? 1000-1200? I’m guessing here...Go give an M5 or C63 1000HP and it’ll lap the same as the Plaid.

So let’s not act like EV has magically found a way to defy the laws of physics. Emissions restrictions on ICE have allowed EV to catch up and in some areas pass ICE. Simple.

ICE is dying because of politics...not because they can’t keep up. Weight is the enemy of performance...and EV hasn’t sorted that out yet. Which is why they struggle on the track after 1-2 laps. Along with battery tech as well.
No one said that, but it's more the fact that for all intents and purposes, EV is good enough to be and ICE equal in terms of performance.

Take two cars that have the exact same performance, one being an EV one being an ICE. The EV is better IMO. Has benefits that simply aren't possible with ICE while the ICE has few meaningful benefits in the real world.
 

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Some facts for you:
  • There is a limited supply of fossil fuels
  • Pollution kills
  • Emission controls have vastly improved the air quality in major cities (for the same level of traffic)

Electric cars offer much more scope for precisely, and simply, controlling the power at each individual wheel. It is a much more elegant solution, IMO. The issue is still the energy density of batteries (I'd like a gas trubine), yet Tesla are making pigs of cars perform. Think how much better they'll be with the 100+ years of development that ICE has had.

Frankly, we're still using basic steam age technology in car engines. As attached to the sound and nostalgia as many are, we are progressing.
There is a limited supply of lithium. Not only that, but the extent that demand is having on it is resulting in ever more environmentally destructive mining methodology and scale. Emissions for the fairly few exotics and ultra high end luxury cars is fairly minimal. It is big semi trucking and commuter cars that due to scale and mileage have the most significant effect on pollution.

Electric cars have been around before ICE cars :). They've already had 100 years of development technically. Porsche's tank being one of them. Diesel electric subs for another. You didn't think that electric motors just suddenly birthed into existence, right? Or batteries for that matter
 

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No one said that, but it's more the fact that for all intents and purposes, EV is good enough to be and ICE equal in terms of performance.

Take two cars that have the exact same performance, one being an EV one being an ICE. The EV is better IMO. Has benefits that simply aren't possible with ICE while the ICE has few meaningful benefits in the real world.
I would take ICE, performance being equal. More driver involvement (exhaust sound, light weight), or alternatively, better interior/comfort/features for same weight
 

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There is a limited supply of lithium. Not only that, but the extent that demand is having on it is resulting in ever more environmentally destructive mining methodology and scale. Emissions for the fairly few exotics and ultra high end luxury cars is fairly minimal. It is big semi trucking and commuter cars that due to scale and mileage have the most significant effect on pollution.
I don't disagree. Battery technology, and materials, are real issues. You could look at it as shifting where pollution occurs (including electricity generation), which has its advantages in being able to control it (single cars to larger plants / mines).
Electric cars have been around before ICE cars :). They've already had 100 years of development technically. Porsche's tank being one of them. Diesel electric subs for another. You didn't think that electric motors just suddenly birthed into existence, right? Or batteries for that matter
The requirements are different for cars, and they simply haven't had the same money spent on their development as ICE, which is fundamentally inelegant. We have made massive advances over the last few decades.
 

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pick your poison
pollution of the air
contamination of the soil and water
there is no way out
EV sounds great on the surface, but we as humans are in a no win battle with destruction of mother earth.
I am a sceptic when it comes to the green credentials of current electric cars. The technology should produce higher performance cars, which is my main interest.
 

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I am a sceptic when it comes to the green credentials of current electric cars. The technology should produce higher performance cars, which is my main interest.
The first solar panel or hydro plant isn't green either at first. The initial development of green technologies requires dirty inputs. You can't improve renewable with only renewable inputs in the beginning. While current EVs might not be super green, you'll never have green cars until you develop them. No one will develop batteries and green infrastructure if there are no cars to put them in etc.

The goal is to pollute in the short term in order to not pollute in the long term. We're making huge improvements in green technology and infrastructure and we will eventually get to where we need to be. This is just the nature of technology and R&D. In theory we should be able to develop them first, but humans and their social systems are flawed and do not allow it to happen the ideal way unfortunately.
 

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I would take ICE, performance being equal. More driver involvement (exhaust sound, light weight), or alternatively, better interior/comfort/features for same weight
Lighter weight maybe, but most driver involvement can always be added artificially if it's merely the subjectives you're after. Hell, you could put a "clutch" in an EV and force people to shift if you wanted, just like a video game.
 
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