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Hi Des, you compare the performance of the P1 to the AgeraR in your article. You've driven the 918 also, where does this stand performance-wise?
 

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Thanks Des,that got to be the record for the most comprehensive first post,give the man a badge:)
 

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DES, one thing I didn't get a feel for is, how crazy would you find it to drive the car everyday as a daily driver? Also, how long a run do you think you'd need to wind the car up to top speed of 220ish?
 

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First time I saw a picture of the P1 engine from this angle - looks almost identical to the 12C, and what surprises me the most is that they are still using the log style exhaust manifolds instead of a more header like set-up on would expect for the output.
 

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First time I saw a picture of the P1 engine from this angle - looks almost identical to the 12C, and what surprises me the most is that they are still using the log style exhaust manifolds instead of a more header like set-up on would expect for the output.
The turbos are mounted directly to the head to reduce lag. Headers would increase lag. Best
 

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Thankfully there are times when English is better than American, and 'sometimes you brake so hard you feel like your pants are coming off' is even more emotive in the queen's version...

Fantastic write up des... ! One interesting point. In boost mode I believe the electric motor is still working in the lower end of the rev range for torque fill in... Is this your understanding also?
 

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The difference is the log type manifold works mostly on pressure, the header style utilizes exhaust pulses and pressure, hence is more efficient - my point was that the two engines are much closer in design then I expected.

The turbos are mounted directly to the head to reduce lag. Headers would increase lag. Best
 

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The difference is the log type manifold works mostly on pressure, the header style utilizes exhaust pulses and pressure, hence is more efficient - my point was that the two engines are much closer in design then I expected.
The engine has the same design, but is 75% changed in terms of materials, strength, optimization, production and other things...

That's why the name of it is almost the same as the 12C.

-- RANT --
And can we all please stop claiming that somehow we know more about McLaren's Engine than McLaren's engineers?! "header style [...] is more efficient" is just a ridiculous remark. You have no clue about the details of the engine, you have never seen any simulation air flows, you have never seen any sensor readouts, you have not been involved in the design and optimization, and most importantly, I would guess you do NOT build high performance race engines for a living.

This is just the same crap as people watching soccer in their armchair complaining about some bad shot that the player did, although they couldn't even hit the damn ball if they tried themselves...

Sad... drives me mad :) (as I am sure you can see from the above).
-- RANT END --

Sorry for that :) Could not resist...
 

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Thankfully there are times when English is better than American, and 'sometimes you brake so hard you feel like your pants are coming off' is even more emotive in the queen's version...

Fantastic write up des... ! One interesting point. In boost mode I believe the electric motor is still working in the lower end of the rev range for torque fill in... Is this your understanding also?
I think not specifically torque fill in, no.. But it does run in boost mode to optimize gear changes... So it will speed up or slow down the drive-train for smoother gear changes as far as I understood... maybe thats what you meant though?

I might be wrong there though..
 

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I think not specifically torque fill in, no.. But it does run in boost mode to optimize gear changes... So it will speed up or slow down the drive-train for smoother gear changes as far as I understood... maybe thats what you meant though?

I might be wrong there though..
Sure mr. G told me it was there always at the low end.
 

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And btw... someone really needs to explain to me why they keep thinking that this is "almost" the same:

M838T (12C)
ML0068.jpg

M838TQ (P1)
p1engine1.jpg

Other than it being a V8, with a low crank, and twin turbo chargers, what is so "the same"?!

The engineers took the M838T, and optimized it all over, using the same CAD design to begin, but changed half of the damn thing at least...

Why the heck do people want McLaren to start from scratch if the M838T is so good that it wins "international engine of the year"?! Strange logic some people have...
 

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My point exactly, those two engines look almost identical, just different built stage. That the block had to be redesigned to add some mounting hardware for the el-motor takes nothing from the internal design. Apparently the same is true for the transmission.

The rest is marketing hype plain and simple, McLaren needs to differentiate the two powertrains to make the huge price gap between the two cars easier to justify. It's called repackaging and is one of the most common marketing tools across every design these days. I am not sure why this is perceived as a such a threat in this place, all 375 cars are sold - the buyers evidently don't care. :rolleyes:


And btw... someone really needs to explain to me why they keep thinking that this is "almost" the same:

M838T (12C)
View attachment 13609

M838TQ (P1)
View attachment 13617

Other than it being a V8, with a low crank, and twin turbo chargers, what is so "the same"?!

The engineers took the M838T, and optimized it all over, using the same CAD design to begin, but changed half of the damn thing at least...

Why the heck do people want McLaren to start from scratch if the M838T is so good that it wins "international engine of the year"?! Strange logic some people have...
 

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Other than it being a V8, with a low crank, and twin turbo chargers, what is so "the same"?!

The engineers took the M838T, and optimized it all over, using the same CAD design to begin, but changed half of the damn thing at least...

Why the heck do people want McLaren to start from scratch if the M838T is so good that it wins "international engine of the year"?! Strange logic some people have...
Strange logic perhaps... but no less strange than the suggestion that no one should be able to question any of the technical aspects of the engine design either. Your faith in Mclaren's engineers didn't exactly stop you from digging around Iris2 either did it...? ;)
 

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My point exactly, those two engines look almost identical, just different built stage. That the block had to be redesigned to add some mounting hardware for the el-motor takes nothing from the internal design. Apparently the same is true for the transmission.

The rest is marketing hype plain and simple, McLaren needs to differentiate the two powertrains to make the huge price gap between the two cars easier to justify. It's called repackaging and is one of the most common marketing tools across every design these days. I am not sure why this is perceived as a such a threat in this place, all 375 cars are sold - the buyers evidently don't care. :rolleyes:
Uhm..
did you even look at the pictures?! :)

How is this a "redesign to add mounting hardware"?!? You do not even SEE the electric motor in these images!

But, you see a ton more pipes for cooling, completely different block dimensions, completely different turbo chargers, more or less everything except for the center changed.

And, this is not perceived as a threat. Clearly I do not care that others think the engine is "the same", I bought one. The problem just is, the engine CLEARLY is not the same!
 
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