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Discussion Starter #1
Sorry….So how do we feel that the P1 price will hold up. ?

Separately, AC, I think you know that the 240k hits the non-refundable point a very long time before the car even goes into build…

Champ, respectfully. At no point have I ever intend to personalise any point. Albeit your views are at odds with your comments. i.e., I have always said that deprecation is an issue for me….and now note that you cite this very same reason for not being a P1 customer. With regard to what you have won…sorry I have no interest in this.
 

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The only car of the 3 that will hold and then make the owners money is the La Ferrari .
The 918 will not do well and the P1 is doomed if they are not careful .
 

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We both know that CL,but is this not the norm with every manufacturer,infact if that is an issue is 80k deposit not enough? and then let everyone spec their car and see who pays up in the end? Or do they say 240k for the next level, fully refundable to see who is really interested ? where would you draw the line? Why do you see this as a McLaren only issue and are singling them out.No-one complained when they did exactly the same with the 12c ,infact people were begging to have their next 15k taken to get up the list.
I do understand what you are saying,but customers generally know what they are buying,its not an XJ220.Ok,if it is a couple of seconds out at the ring,but smashes every other track,why the downer,you knew what you were putting your deposit on ,if you've had a change of mind,no problem,but why are you spoiling it for other future owners !!
 

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Sorry….So how do we feel that the P1 price will hold up. ?

Separately, AC, I think you know that the 240k hits the non-refundable point a very long time before the car even goes into build…

Champ, respectfully. At no point have I ever intend to personalise any point. Albeit your views are at odds with your comments. i.e., I have always said that deprecation is an issue for me….and now note that you cite this very same reason for not being a P1 customer. With regard to what you have won…sorry I have no interest in this.
Thought you were leaving - you stated it yesterday three times.

You already stated you laugh at every P1 buyer - starting a thread that I can't decipher and then continue it to disenchant the P1.

What I have won doesn't interest you? What does that mean? You asked yesterday if I had a golf cart with horns.

I do not walk away from animosity so at least make it noteworthy.

You feel if you don't have a P1 no one can or should.

And if they do - ruin it as best you can.

Childish selfish and naive and you wear it well - congrats Lad!
 

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Discussion Starter #5
AC, the point I am making is that, there was not a lot of info in play at the time the deposits went not refundable. As of now it’s to late…..I take on board your point. I have no wish to spoil any thing for any one….Point closed

Champ, I will not make the same as widow…..sorry mate I won’t bite….
 

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AC, the point I am making is that, there was not a lot of info in play at the time the deposits went not refundable. As of now it’s to late…..I take on board your point. I have no wish to spoil any thing for any one….Point closed

Champ, I will not make the same as widow…..sorry mate I won’t bite….
CL,some of the info is being mis=interpreted by many,what you can see you know what you where getting ,what you cant see has been explained differently by different people,look at what Fabian has said on another post about the Edrive,who is right? I still prefer to give McLaren the benefit of doubt ! And what do lafa customers know JS at the moment
 

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Discussion Starter #7
AC, I take your point, I so much would love to own a P1, still do. I came within 2 mins at Geneva of signing on the line…..It was only when they told me that TG time was not quite right…..That spooked me……Look at what WTD has said….he is not wrong…..

I get to drive my friends P1 later this month, so will report….
 

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AC, I take your point, I so much would love to own a P1, still do. I came within 2 mins at Geneva of signing on the line…..It was only when they told me that TG time was not quite right…..That spooked me……Look at what WTD has said….he is not wrong…..

I get to drive my friends P1 later this month, so will report….
Okey Dokey,Please don't burst his bubble though ;)
 

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Well if this was a business I was considering buying, I'd throw this out:

-the LaF is probably the safest bet. The big risk to that is the internet age and people my age and younger getting tired of Ferrari's antics or having a bad experience with Ferrari and losing faith in that particular religion. For example, I bought a shiny red Ferrari once and the ownership experience was such that I tend to disbelieve the positive reviews of the 458. So far off of test times and magazine commentary was the Fezza I owned. So far off.

The risk in the LaF is that Ferrari's eventually cost-counts and lies its image into the toilet. For example, the late 60's muscle cars people were paying a million bucks for 5 years ago... nobody my age is going to pony up a million bucks, inflation adjusted, for them. These are cars selling to people who dreamed of these cars as kids and, now, as old men, finally have the means to buy them. Few my age shared this dream as kids. The people paying huge bucks for vintage Ferrari's... if Ferrari loses its rep, will these cars gain (again relative to inflation) or hold value going forward? Thats the risk here - Ferrari's rep. If Ferrari maintains its rep all will be well for LaF buyers.

-The 918 will certainly depreciate greatly, where it will settle ... I'll guess 500k. And the batteries will become the CGT's clutch, so to speak. 6:57 is a nice time, but I don't find it shocking or stunning in a world where LFAs and Vipers and C7 ZR1s are within any kind of sight of it. Or a Nismo GTR is probably withing spitting distance?

-The P1s fate hangs in teh balance. If it set a dominant time, like the 6:3X rumors, and begot a line of McLaren cars that built a history like Ferrari or Porsche or Vette or Lambo have, it would appreciate. If it winds up an underachiever ... huge depreciation.

It looks so fantastic, so new, so unique, if it delivers on that promise its prices will be fine. But lets face it, today, in this cars time, an obsession with the fairly pointless thing that "manufacturer stated and unverified" ring times are, if it doesn't turn in a huge win in stated 'ring time, it will depreciate greatly.

Thats my take on the market. If this was a security I wouldn't touch the P1 either way. If forced to, I'd sell it. Emotionally I want it to live up to all its promises and more, its the underdog, the new guy. Porsche is boring, bean counting, overcharging, over profiting laze. Ferrari are ... underachieving liars with amazing mastery of the press? I've never felt as short changed in my life as the Ferrari I owned, save, perhaps, a couple of shiny but substanceless girlfriends.
 

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AC, the point I am making is that, there was not a lot of info in play at the time the deposits went not refundable. As of now it’s to late…..I take on board your point. I have no wish to spoil any thing for any one….Point closed

Champ, I will not make the same as widow…..sorry mate I won’t bite….
Then delete your post - as of yesterday you demonstrated differently.

I didn't set the hook - would like nothing more than to see you support Mclaren as an owner or an enthusiast. If you have an axe to grind and it's legit go for it but to cast shadows here isn't going to end well for any of us especially for the guys with skin in the game.

If for no other reason the mods and owners of this forum provide us with a wonderful place to share experiences ... let's not be selfish and ruin it.
 

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Well if this was a business I was considering buying, I'd throw this out:

-the LaF is probably the safest bet. The big risk to that is the internet age and people my age and younger getting tired of Ferrari's antics or having a bad experience with Ferrari and losing faith in that particular religion. For example, I bought a shiny red Ferrari once and the ownership experience was such that I tend to disbelieve the positive reviews of the 458. So far off of test times and magazine commentary was the Fezza I owned. So far off.

The risk in the LaF is that Ferrari's eventually cost-counts and lies its image into the toilet. For example, the late 60's muscle cars people were paying a million bucks for 5 years ago... nobody my age is going to pony up a million bucks, inflation adjusted, for them. These are cars selling to people who dreamed of these cars as kids and, now, as old men, finally have the means to buy them. Few my age shared this dream as kids. The people paying huge bucks for vintage Ferrari's... if Ferrari loses its rep, will these cars gain (again relative to inflation) or hold value going forward? Thats the risk here - Ferrari's rep. If Ferrari maintains its rep all will be well for LaF buyers.

-The 918 will certainly depreciate greatly, where it will settle ... I'll guess 500k. And the batteries will become the CGT's clutch, so to speak. 6:57 is a nice time, but I don't find it shocking or stunning in a world where LFAs and Vipers and C7 ZR1s are within any kind of sight of it. Or a Nismo GTR is probably withing spitting distance?

-The P1s fate hangs in teh balance. If it set a dominant time, like the 6:3X rumors, and begot a line of McLaren cars that built a history like Ferrari or Porsche or Vette or Lambo have, it would appreciate. If it winds up an underachiever ... huge depreciation.

It looks so fantastic, so new, so unique, if it delivers on that promise its prices will be fine. But lets face it, today, in this cars time, an obsession with the fairly pointless thing that "manufacturer stated and unverified" ring times are, if it doesn't turn in a huge win in stated 'ring time, it will depreciate greatly.

Thats my take on the market. If this was a security I wouldn't touch the P1 either way. If forced to, I'd sell it. Emotionally I want it to live up to all its promises and more, its the underdog, the new guy. Porsche is boring, bean counting, overcharging, over profiting laze. Ferrari are ... underachieving liars with amazing mastery of the press? I've never felt as short changed in my life as the Ferrari I owned, save, perhaps, a couple of shiny but substanceless girlfriends.

Minnesota: I don't know how old you are but if your thoughts are any indication of the way your piers think today, The world is safe. Your obsevations and summary is excellent. Touche.
 

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Well if this was a business I was considering buying, I'd throw this out:

-the LaF is probably the safest bet. The big risk to that is the internet age and people my age and younger getting tired of Ferrari's antics or having a bad experience with Ferrari and losing faith in that particular religion. For example, I bought a shiny red Ferrari once and the ownership experience was such that I tend to disbelieve the positive reviews of the 458. So far off of test times and magazine commentary was the Fezza I owned. So far off.

The risk in the LaF is that Ferrari's eventually cost-counts and lies its image into the toilet. For example, the late 60's muscle cars people were paying a million bucks for 5 years ago... nobody my age is going to pony up a million bucks, inflation adjusted, for them. These are cars selling to people who dreamed of these cars as kids and, now, as old men, finally have the means to buy them. Few my age shared this dream as kids. The people paying huge bucks for vintage Ferrari's... if Ferrari loses its rep, will these cars gain (again relative to inflation) or hold value going forward? Thats the risk here - Ferrari's rep. If Ferrari maintains its rep all will be well for LaF buyers.

-The 918 will certainly depreciate greatly, where it will settle ... I'll guess 500k. And the batteries will become the CGT's clutch, so to speak. 6:57 is a nice time, but I don't find it shocking or stunning in a world where LFAs and Vipers and C7 ZR1s are within any kind of sight of it. Or a Nismo GTR is probably withing spitting distance?

-The P1s fate hangs in teh balance. If it set a dominant time, like the 6:3X rumors, and begot a line of McLaren cars that built a history like Ferrari or Porsche or Vette or Lambo have, it would appreciate. If it winds up an underachiever ... huge depreciation.

It looks so fantastic, so new, so unique, if it delivers on that promise its prices will be fine. But lets face it, today, in this cars time, an obsession with the fairly pointless thing that "manufacturer stated and unverified" ring times are, if it doesn't turn in a huge win in stated 'ring time, it will depreciate greatly.

Thats my take on the market. If this was a security I wouldn't touch the P1 either way. If forced to, I'd sell it. Emotionally I want it to live up to all its promises and more, its the underdog, the new guy. Porsche is boring, bean counting, overcharging, over profiting laze. Ferrari are ... underachieving liars with amazing mastery of the press? I've never felt as short changed in my life as the Ferrari I owned, save, perhaps, a couple of shiny but substanceless girlfriends.
Interesting take on Ferrari. I've heard others say it before as well, and it's the same way I feel... I love the cars of Ferrari, but I can't stand the brand of Ferrari... That probably has something to do with why I spend so much time on a site dedicated to McLaren! Their brand seems to be more in the techno-geekery, and that suits me just fine!

-nh4.
 

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Interesting take on Ferrari. I've heard others say it before as well, and it's the same way I feel... I love the cars of Ferrari, but I can't stand the brand of Ferrari... That probably has something to do with why I spend so much time on a site dedicated to McLaren! Their brand seems to be more in the techno-geekery, and that suits me just fine!

-nh4.
+1

To me their brand says lies, cheating, form over substance, shallow and ultimately old money/old customers. If you're a young guy, I'm not sure how you buy in to it unless your Dad had one.
 

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+1

To me their brand says lies, cheating, form over substance, shallow and ultimately old money/old customers. If you're a young guy, I'm not sure how you buy in to it unless your Dad had one.
My dad never had one , mum did but that was not from a main dealer and she only had it a year as hated it. Didn't stop me buying one And I'm a young chap. No good to stereotype. Just buy the car that suits you most.

What I like about Mclaren is how rugged it seems to be. My 458 feels more delicate somehow. I'm not sure how much it will like its first trackday but I've seen videos of kc's doing lap after lap.

If Mclaren had a mighty n/a engine I have little doubt I would have bypassed the look at me doors and ridiculous entry sill and bought one instead.
 

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I'm talking about the brand not the car Wopps. I'd make space for a 458 Speciale tomorrow but I don't like what the badge stands for.
 

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It's amazing how perception changes doesn't it....
I still love Ferrari.. Three years ago when I got my 458 and went off to fiorano and went round and round in circles (bless you RIc) for two days, was taken to the notorious tifosi eateries and so forth, life was quite exceptional.. The 458, 599 and 430 scud were my favourite cars in the whole world by a margin.. I even fell a little in ove with the Cali...

Then my 12c arrived, and I knew my 458 would never get driven... And then all the stories about press ringer cars grew more prominent and now here we are. I still would buy their cars, probably safe in the knowledge that it wasn't the car that I'd read about..,
 

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I'm talking about the brand not the car Wopps. I'd make space for a 458 Speciale tomorrow but I don't like what the badge stands for.
Personally think the brand is fun, more fun than Mclaren . Everyone loves a Ferrari , kids clap their hands and shout when you drive by and I'm always being let out at junctions that I or ally wouldn't. When things go wrong with the car the fun quickly stops however...
 

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Personally think the brand is fun, more fun than Mclaren . Everyone loves a Ferrari , kids clap their hands and shout when you drive by and I'm always being let out at junctions that I or ally wouldn't. When things go wrong with the car the fun quickly stops however...
If you drove on the continent wopps I'd agree... Had guys diving in drainage gutters to see us go by...

Uk... Errm. Different ... Very different ..

Mac has the same effect on the continent. Arguably more so... But of course there are fewer who know what it is to get hot under the collar..
 
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