[6th element]

Am I imagining things, or do some of these British journos enjoy taking it out of Ron/McLaren a little bit? Not trying to make additional excuses- but maybe some of you UK guys can provide insight. I know he has always been regarded as anal retentive and a perfectionist, perhaps to the point of annoying some. Certainly not expecting favouritism, but it just seems to me that some of the remorse is a bit put on, not genuine considering McLaren is a British company.

Just a dynamic I've noticed and wondering if there is more to it?

 

[Calitalia]

I would simply put it as it takes some time for general public to accept something completely new from scratch that is an engineering marvel good enough to be in the same if not beyond league of Ferrari. Lamborghini is not in F1 so the only worthy competitor roadcar would be McLaren.

It is just not easy to for all to accept that a car company can come up with something so ground breaking. It changes everyone's thought (Carbon monocell, brake steer...) about a road car. Technology wise, Ferrari is using a winning formula (like the 911) and evoluionizing it basing it on a successful blueprint not to be messed with. McLaren uses revolutionary F1 technology and completely new blueprint to build a car. It is new, with all in house parts no in house parts. There will be glitches but it is definitely as iconic as the 458 if not more as the one and only iconic supercar in this era. It will also be the first to mark automotive history of supercar at the dawn of this decade.

I would simply explain this, regardless of what magazines say, the car is an admirable engineering piece that is very different from a 458.

I maybe wrong but in terms of technology and racing heritage/elements (carbon shell... etc), this car has as much as if not more technology than 458. Comparing to a Gallardo, I would say this car is 2 - 3 generations ahead.

However, the caveat in taking on something so new is that you will have to take risks. Reliability, sales, second hand value all unproven. Most important, when the car was so expected, people have very very high expectations and I think it will take a long time for the press to digest and really understand the car as an automotive history icon. It takes time to warm up to something so new and so different. In the past, people only pit Lambos against Ferrari but now there's a completely different, techno, special company making a car so worthy and yet, the car is also made by someone and a marque who had a rich history in Formula 1 racing. It will baffle people.

I wouldn't deny that it is going to be an upstrem battle for McLaren Automotive because it is benchmarked against the best, the red pony. However, I am split as well in taking on a less visited path (I am suspecting that many are already pulling out).

I am still 50/50. When GTR comes out, it was very controversial and then the R8 as well. It takes time to accept something special (in no way am I hinting that GTR is in the same brand segment but I would say GTR is another ground breaking icon as much as the NSX by HONDA).

 

[AMAROK]

A very interesting read thank you, For my part being one of the first to recieve the car, has moved from excitement to concern after recent mag and tv tests, normally i would'nt take to much notice, however after it being portrayed by mc laren as the next big step !! It has had its arse kicked well and truly around the track by that red thing. Where has the pace, handling, driver involvement gone ?? I think mc laren have to sort this and pretty quickly too !!

 

[widowmaker911]

A very interesting read thank you, For my part being one of the first to recieve the car, has moved from excitement to concern after recent mag and tv tests, normally i would'nt take to much notice, however after it being portrayed by mc laren as the next big step !! It has had its arse kicked well and truly around the track by that red thing. Where has the pace, handling, driver involvement gone ?? I think mc laren have to sort this and pretty quickly too !!

Fifth gear review was very troubling.........both tiff n jason in conclusion stated that the 458 had a BETTER ENGINE/GEARBOX/HANDLING...........458 has the LOOKS and SOUND in spades........so there is NOTHING left!...........esp when Ron said it would be the BEST!.........the clincher was that both said the CLEAR WINNER was the 458 by a WIDE margin!!

 

[Calitalia]

A very interesting read thank you, For my part being one of the first to recieve the car, has moved from excitement to concern after recent mag and tv tests, normally i would'nt take to much notice, however after it being portrayed by mc laren as the next big step !! It has had its arse kicked well and truly around the track by that red thing. Where has the pace, handling, driver involvement gone ?? I think mc laren have to sort this and pretty quickly too !!

I hope I am wrong but aesthetics aside (which had already been labelled as too bland...), MP4-12c is going on a really strong current swimming upstream. Is there really something fundamentally so wrong with the car that every magazine definitively gives it a big thumbs down compared to 458 and overall?

I am considering pulling out. It's been a bad weekend. TG will add to it now giving that one last little push when Ron is hanging on only one finger.

 

[widowmaker911]

I hope I am wrong but aesthetics aside (which had already been labelled as too bland...), MP4-12c is going on a really strong current swimming upstream. Is there really something fundamentally so wrong with the car that every magazine definitively gives it a big thumbs down compared to 458 and overall?

I am considering pulling out. It's been a bad weekend. TG will add to it now giving that one last little push when Ron is hanging on only one finger.

Ron Dennis once said early on at the beginning stages of the 12C project that it was gonna be a steep and difficult 'climb'........well Ron the 'CLIMB' just got a lot STEEPER and more DIFFICULT........probably will not reach the SUMMIT

 

[Calitalia]

Ron Dennis once said early on at the beginning stages of the 12C project that it was gonna be a steep and difficult 'climb'........well Ron the 'CLIMB' just got a lot STEEPER and more DIFFICULT........probably will not reach the SUMMIT

This is an ice climb with Ron and his whole team on the steepest slope but without (or maybe with, who knows how Ron thinks right?) his seeing and expecting an avalanche of this scale (7/7 thumbs down 7/7 losing battle to 458) coming his way. Will Ron and the McLaren climbing team survive this ever growing avalanche that keeps media on the snowballing effect, I reserve my judgement. Only time can tell. True marvel will stand the test of time.

For e.g., the GTR upon roll out was time and time and time and again being dismissed as cheating with different slicks by the Porsche team. Up until now, no one can disprove that the GTR is an engineering marvel that did beat many supercars. Everyone keeps quiet now. Let's see who's who this time.

 

[Rich]

Ron also said it will compete with the class above it, that 'good is not good enough'.

Wonder if we should start a new thread with a list of Mclarens broken promises?

 

[widowmaker911]

Ron also said it will compete with the class above it, that 'good is not good enough'.

Wonder if we should start a new thread with a list of Mclarens broken promises?

I was a huge fan of McLaren.........sad to see really coming from a company that made the F1........which to this day Tiff says is the best super car ever......over confidence may have done them in

 

[Calitalia]

Ron needs to play the come back kid now and come up with a huge media containment plan. Let's hope he makes good use of this few days before Hamilton and Button's appearance on Goodwood FOS. Media may just throw questions at Anthony and Ron and or those two who did so much for the car as much as designing it. Then again Schmacher also put a lot into the California back then. They have oh 3 days? or 4 tops?

Now the script suddenly reads like when Barack Obama was inauguarated with one word we all recall "CHANGE"... and now his promises are all empty to most and the economy is not only in a rut but also in dire peril (for stagflation). One year before re election with a 9.4 + unemployment rate, he has one year to roll out or not QE 3 and approve higher debt to GDP level and miracle may happen. He needs to also play the come back kid. So both started off very well and both fell off the cliff and give nothing but disappointments. So...

 

[Rich]

I think Mclarens reaction to this will form the basis if I'm going to hold the car or not.

They can still maintain there brand integrity, by saying it's obviously not good enough - give us another 6 months and we'll address all the concerns.

Then, however, people will ask why they thought it was ready now?

 

[widowmaker911]

I think Mclarens reaction to this will form the basis if I'm going to hold the car or not.

They can still maintain there brand integrity, by saying it's obviously not good enough - give us another 6 months and we'll address all the concerns.

Then, however, people will ask why they thought it was ready now?

NO WIN scenario for them.......they are DAMNED if they do and they are DAMNED if they don't.......they will ignore this PUBLICLY but address it internally (shareholders,buyers,investors,etc).......this strategy may backfire cause I can't see the press backing off esp with Goodwood FOS just around the corner.......should have never come to this with such a perfectionist CEO

 

[997]

Then, however, people will ask why they thought it was ready now?

Because compared to the 458 they owned and benchmarked against, it probably was. How else could they have been so confident ?

 

[Doubleclutch]

They are telling me that the 12c is the best road car compared the 458, they didn't build it for the race track..makes some sense, none of us are drifting around corners on the way to the mall. I need to drive it first.

 

[widowmaker911]

They are telling me that the 12c is the best road car compared the 458, they didn't build it for the race track..makes some sense, none of us are drifting around corners on the way to the mall. I need to drive it first.

Last time I checked the 458 was not a purpose built track car........12C was benched marked against 458 but failed to deliver.......they are starting to mince words here TRACK vs ROAD WTF.....I don't buy it........remember Anthony Sheriff 'just as good as....is not good enough.........the car enthusiast is not going to fall for it

 

[Calitalia]

I don't know. My deposit sits a little longer. My delivery was originally 2012 Q3/Q4 was once pushed to 13 as only 60 cars in this 2 years 12 being 2011. Everything is too early on.

To avoid any doubt, 458 would be best but my allocation will be Q1 2013 earliest for new order and that's not motivating for me as it is 3rd year slammed into the middle of the cycle almost.