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You have no idea. For example, how do the modifications affect the resonant frequency of the exhaust? How does this interact with the waste-gate control algorithm?

As for lowering the car, the suspension geometry is optimised around its normal equilibrium position. Changing that risks premature wear and invalidates some of the active suspension's design parameters. I would be suspicious that the previous issue wasn't fully fixed, so wouldn't have risked a mod.

Modern Engineering is complicated. You cannot trust your gut feeling on how modifications will affect the complete system.
Thats all a moot point, McLaren denied his warranty claim without following the law. Straight from the Federal Trade Commission website:
1. "Simply using an aftermarket or recycled part does not void your warranty."
2. "Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act makes it illegal for companies to void your warranty or deny coverage under the warranty simply because you used an aftermarket or recycled part."
3. "The FTC says the manufacturer or dealer must show that the aftermarket or recycled part caused the need for repairs before denying warranty coverage."

OP says "McLaren denied my warranty claim because my car has a catless exhaust system and said that it voided my engine warranty." Which is illegal. McLaren needs to do more than that before they can legally deny his warranty claim. You people need to learn your rights and realize that sucking McLaren's cock won't get you anything.

OP, they already have bulletins for the issue published? Get that and give it to your attorney, go sue them. You may have a case.
 

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Thats all a moot point, McLaren denied his warranty claim without following the law. Straight from the Federal Trade Commission website:
1. "Simply using an aftermarket or recycled part does not void your warranty."
2. "Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act makes it illegal for companies to void your warranty or deny coverage under the warranty simply because you used an aftermarket or recycled part."
3. "The FTC says the manufacturer or dealer must show that the aftermarket or recycled part caused the need for repairs before denying warranty coverage."

OP says "McLaren denied my warranty claim because my car has a catless exhaust system and said that it voided my engine warranty." Which is illegal. McLaren needs to do more than that before they can legally deny his warranty claim. You people need to learn your rights and realize that sucking McLaren's cock won't get you anything.

OP, they already have bulletins for the issue published? Get that and give it to your attorney, go sue them. You may have a case.
Sorry, but they didn't just use an aftermarket part, they removed a part.

This is a modification, not an aftermarket part (designed to perform the same role, to the same spec).

A manufacturer is not liable if the owner decides to modify the car - how could they design for that?
 

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I'm wondering if Mclaren owners are more likely to modify or tune these cars rather than other exotics like Ferrari, thus creating more problems. It seems like its the luck of the draw when it comes to mods and failures. When I owned a Ferrari hardly anyone in the Ferrari world modified their car. It was considered sacrilegious. Mods such as tuning definitely cause more failures. I've seen this with practically any brand. (and I'm not saying the dealer should deny any claim that's not related to the mod but they certainly can make your life difficult.) Also if you didn't buy your car from the dealer and you mod your car and expect them to warranty everything, might be asking a lot.

My problem is if owners are modifying their cars and get associated warranty issues denied and then go on social media blasting Mclaren without telling the general public that the car was modified is rather misleading and self serving imo.
 

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I'm wondering if Mclaren owners are more likely to modify or tune these cars rather than other exotics like Ferrari, thus creating more problems. It seems like its the luck of the draw when it comes to mods and failures. When I owned a Ferrari hardly anyone in the Ferrari world modified their car. It was considered sacrilegious. Mods such as tuning definitely cause more failures. I've seen this with practically any brand. (and I'm not saying the dealer should deny any claim that's not related to the mod but they certainly can make your life difficult.) Also if you didn't buy your car from the dealer and you mod your car and expect them to warranty everything, might be asking a lot.

My problem is if owners are modifying their cars and get associated warranty issues denied and then go on social media blasting Mclaren without telling the general public that the car was modified is rather misleading and self serving imo.
Yes but that is not the case, here.

The counter argument is do we want to buy from a company that is going to use any excuse they can, like a bloody insurance company, to deny your claim? So you put aftermarket floor mats in your car and all of a sudden your warranty is void?
 

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If they can have one of their engineers write out a detailed explanation as to why these are being denied, then I will drop it, but all they have done is immediately deny my claims citing aftermarket parts as the issue which is illegal. They have not given me a single explanation. The suspension issue was a pre-existing issue that came back not even a month later - lowering springs do not affect accumulators and that is why I want an actual response from someone on their team for the rationalization behind denying them in the first place.
Call 800-LEMON-LAW (800) 536-6652 . Free legal representation for Magnuson Moss, Lemon Law and Breach of Warranty claims since 1991. Three ASE certified mechanics on staff to review the issue and testify if they find that the problem was independent of any impact from a catless exhaust. Its my law firm and I have found that they don't hold any grudges when we submit good faith disputes for litigation. In fact, I've had 3 McLarens with a fourth in transit. Love the cars. McLaren produce a great product but are a growing company and like everyone can make mistakes in how they handle problems. I can also tell you that from my viewpoint professionally, they are far better to deal with than many of the other exotic car manufacturers. I am guessing that the people who need to review your situation within the company, higher management and their legal counsel , probably aren't familiar with your situation. They have always shown a willingness to reevaluate and do the right thing if presented with a well-reasoned techinical viewpoint from our mechanics. You havve nothing to lose and a relationship to save if things do work out.
 

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If you drastically reduce the back pressure in your exhaust then this will affect how the turbo operates arguable causing more wear on the turbo itself and if it allows higher boost lower in the rev range as it overshoots targets (because of the freeer flow) then you will have more torque in this range, more troque will by definition wear the engine out quicker and put more stress on most parts of the motor that is factual and can be easlity shown on most chassis dynos.

It is a difficult one, I have changed my muffler to aftermarket and I believe it makes zero difference to the engine but I very recently discussed with my friendly Mac service manager and he suggested that in the event of an expensive engine failure we should swap back in the stock muffler - this is total BS for me but the fact is the warranty is a legal document. The laws you have in the US are interesting and probably fairer as one can at least argue whether the mod is likely to have caused the problem and I presume the benefit of the doubt will be on the consumer's side....
 

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They design an engine/powertrain package and warrant that it will not fail and then you modify the engine to produce more horsepower. More HP stress's the components more, why would they warranty it? Where is the line? The law is meant to protect the manufacture from saying you can only use my parts. In this case you did not use like parts but modified parts. They are open to unlimited risk with no upside for them. All these changes are not vetted by their engineering. They spend incredible time, money and and resources testing what goes into the car.

Someone earlier said the manufacturer would do these modification if it would meet emissions. They can produce more power if they wanted without failing emissions. There is a cost to that. You are going to have more failures or have to change the engine internal spec to handle it.. The actuarial's at the company would access the projected costs, failure rate and warranty costs and the price of the car would change.

I like exhaust sound more then the next guy, I am going to leave mine alone. The potential downside outweighs the benefit, the juice is not worth the squeeze.
 

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I'm wondering if Mclaren owners are more likely to modify or tune these cars rather than other exotics like Ferrari, thus creating more problems. It seems like its the luck of the draw when it comes to mods and failures. When I owned a Ferrari hardly anyone in the Ferrari world modified their car. It was considered sacrilegious. Mods such as tuning definitely cause more failures. I've seen this with practically any brand. (and I'm not saying the dealer should deny any claim that's not related to the mod but they certainly can make your life difficult.) Also if you didn't buy your car from the dealer and you mod your car and expect them to warranty everything, might be asking a lot.

My problem is if owners are modifying their cars and get associated warranty issues denied and then go on social media blasting Mclaren without telling the general public that the car was modified is rather misleading and self serving imo.
The typical forum member who posts here is NOT the typical silent observer on these forums or the typical owner outside of these forums...

The typical person and specifically the ones who complain here and on various social media forums typically follow this profile:

1) Buy used
2) Buy outside of their servicing dealer
3) Buy deeply discounted cars
4) Modify their cars

Now, people think that there is no impact to the above which is 100% incorrect. Your dealer controls a lot of your happiness and they in turn are put on a tight leash by the manufacture. There is ZERO involvement on these forums by Mclaren tech's, Mclaren sales personnel, Mclaren Engineers, Mclaren employees (this is quite different between Rennlist and Ferrari forums where there are plenty of people who will keep posters on point or are advocates of the brand).

However, outside of these forums; this type of personnel are quite active and usually on the sly. I can pose a question on a different social media platform or make a comment and a key type personnel will answer.

What did a sales manager/general manager respond when it came to dealers selling new cars outside their area; "it is unfortunate that dealers do this because dealers invest millions of dollars in their local market to nurture customers and then have an outside dealer sell into their market. We will go after the profit from that dealer". Now, do you really think you are going to get treated the same as the guy who bought locally?

Another General Manager and Tech from a different Mac Dealer also responded that if you don't buy locally then your place in line, goodwill decisions, invites to events are going to be severely impacted.

A Ferrari General Manager when discussing modifications and warranty fraud said; "you wouldn't believe the stories I could tell you".

The actual engineer who worked on the 720s, explicitly told me to not change the tires from OEM due to the ESC calibration.

Now; trace back to the more vocal members on these forums who hardly had any postings on here and just came to put Mclaren on blast and you will be able to tie it to warranty work and denials of such work and then see the profile of that owner... It's been happening for two years, despite the repeated warnings to not modify your car. The copy/paste I did from Shardul, who is a forum sponsor and stated that the typical person who modifies the car is a used customer, who might be the second, third owner and pumps money into modifications.... that type of owner is sensitive to $$$$ obviously, so they are going to be more vocal with regards to warranty denials.

If you don't want to deal with these hassles then do NOT modify the car. The armchair lawyers can chime in about this and that Act but bottom line is that you will have to deal with these hassles and it can take a long, long time to sort out.

I'm on my 7th Mac. All purchased from my local dealer (6 new full MSRP and 1 used). I haven't had one warranty denial. No mac of mine has had a tune/exhaust outside of a 650s.
 

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The actual engineer who worked on the 720s, explicitly told me to not change the tires from OEM due to the ESC calibration.
Specifically he will have meant the sizes of the tyres not the brand, whilst of course they advocate sticking with their approved Pirellis, there are other brands out there specifically Michelin who's PS4S transforms the 720S's traction, grip and tread longevity with zero down sides.
A senior Tech tried giving me the Pirelli best line until he tried my car with PS4S and he then changed his tune to the Pirelli track iterations are specifically best for the track which I couldn't argue with as have no experience.
 

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Unmac your gross generalizations are BS; stop pretending you have done an exhaustive audit of every mac owner on the globe. The world is bigger than your instascam feed and trackdays with your chums.

So unless I missed something in the last 100 conflating posts, the part that became detached and damaged the turbo was an OEM part, correct? And this same part is detaching on completely unmodified cars, to the extent that McLaren has acknowledged the problem.

So as rnixon said on page 1, Mac's argument is that the exhaust made the failure of their crap part (or glue) MORE LIKELY to fail. Sorry, that is beyond weak.

What's next, no more windshield replacements for anybody that attaches their iPhone gps to the glass with a suction mount?
 

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My problem is if owners are modifying their cars and get associated warranty issues denied and then go on social media blasting Mclaren without telling the general public that the car was modified is rather misleading and self serving imo.
In your moral worldview, why is it wrong for a customer to be self serving but okay for McLaren?

Sorry, but they didn't just use an aftermarket part, they removed a part.

This is a modification, not an aftermarket part (designed to perform the same role, to the same spec).

A manufacturer is not liable if the owner decides to modify the car - how could they design for that?
They are liable if they can't prove the mod was the cause of the issue.

They design an engine/powertrain package and warrant that it will not fail and then you modify the engine to produce more horsepower. More HP stress's the components more, why would they warranty it? Where is the line? The law is meant to protect the manufacture from saying you can only use my parts. In this case you did not use like parts but modified parts. They are open to unlimited risk with no upside for them. All these changes are not vetted by their engineering. They spend incredible time, money and and resources testing what goes into the car.
"why would they warranty it? Where is the line?"
Where is the line? The law is very clear and simple to understand. The line is that a manufacturer needs to prove the mod did damage before it can deny a claim. Also nobody is forcing them to offer a warranty, they could offer no warranty. But if you want to offer a warranty, make sure you know what the law is and don't try any shady business.

OP made a decision to modify his car and during so most likely did a mental risk analysis of adding the modifications. Since he knew about the law, he shouldn't necessarily worry about a manufacturer voiding his warranty that easily. Then his car has a common issue (common enough to have a bulletin published). McLaren learns of the modification and uses it as an excuse to screw OP out of a warranty claim. McLaren never proved that the mod caused the issue before denying the claim which makes them the wrong ones here. The fact that it had a service bulletin makes OP's case that much stronger. If you don't understand this you are an idiot. Unmac is an idiot.
 

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In your moral worldview, why is it wrong for a customer to be self serving but okay for McLaren?
I'm not sure if I understand your question but I think its pretty clear that Mclaren will tell you not to modify your car or they may not honor your warranty. I'm not sure how that's self serving as all manufacturers do this. If your dealer tells you something different I suggest you get that in writing because the stories we have been hearing are lessons to be learned! I'm not defending the brand but I believe in being reasonable as well. Also I'm not referring to the OP's case but the general Mod discussion.

I would luv to lower my car, do a tune and possibly an exhaust but what I've seen and read makes me triple guess that and I bought new and have the cash to cover the repairs. I just wouldn't want to to deal with the hassle.

That said I'm still NOT 100% sure I won't modify my car. lol
 

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I'm not sure if I understand your question but I think its pretty clear that Mclaren will tell you not to modify your car or they may not honor your warranty. I'm not sure how that's self serving as all manufacturers do this. If your dealer tells you something different I suggest you get that in writing because the stories we have been hearing are lessons to be learned! I'm not defending the brand but I believe in being reasonable as well. Also I'm not referring to the OP's case but the general Mod discussion.

I would luv to lower my car, do a tune and possibly an exhaust but what I've seen and read makes me triple guess that and I bought new and have the cash to cover the repairs. I just wouldn't want to to deal with the hassle.

That said I'm still NOT 100% sure I won't modify my car. lol
"I'm not sure if I understand your question but I think its pretty clear that Mclaren will tell you not to modify your car or they may not honor your warranty."
Which is fine if they prove the mod caused the issue, but here they didn't.

"I'm not sure how that's self serving as all manufacturers do this."
How does the number of manufacturers doing something determine if it is self serving or not?
 

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"I'm not sure if I understand your question but I think its pretty clear that Mclaren will tell you not to modify your car or they may not honor your warranty."
Which is fine if they prove the mod caused the issue, but here they didn't.

"I'm not sure how that's self serving as all manufacturers do this."
How does the number of manufacturers doing something determine if it is self serving or not?
Either you missed the sentence where I said "Also I'm not referring to the OP's case but the general Mod discussion" or your blind or looking for an argument or both? But I don't agree a manufacturer can just void a warranty for anything non related to the mod. I made that very clear in my earlier post.

Whether you believe its self serving or not, you were not forced to buy the manufacturers car and when you did you agreed to their warranty terms. We have the right to reject the deal in entirety if we like.
 

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Specifically he will have meant the sizes of the tyres not the brand, whilst of course they advocate sticking with their approved Pirellis, there are other brands out there specifically Michelin who's PS4S transforms the 720S's traction, grip and tread longevity with zero down sides.
A senior Tech tried giving me the Pirelli best line until he tried my car with PS4S and he then changed his tune to the Pirelli track iterations are specifically best for the track which I couldn't argue with as have no experience.
I don't know the details of the specific tyres you mention, but between different manufacturers tyres that are the same nominal size are not necessarily the same actual size. You might be surprised at how big the differences sometimes are.
The ESC calibration must have enough range to allow for tyre wear, but it would be a mistake to think that circumferences of the 'same' size tyres of different brands are consistent.
 

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I don't know the details of the specific tyres you mention, but between different manufacturers tyres that are the same nominal size are not necessarily the same actual size. You might be surprised at how big the differences sometimes are.
The ESC calibration must have enough range to allow for tyre wear, but it would be a mistake to think that circumferences of the 'same' size tyres of different brands are consistent.
Very true in fact I had two Michelin Cup 2s which had diameters so different that the car lurched to one side during acceleration, that bogus tyre went back to the factory for investigation :)
 

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Thats all a moot point, McLaren denied his warranty claim without following the law. Straight from the Federal Trade Commission website:
1. "Simply using an aftermarket or recycled part does not void your warranty."
2. "Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act makes it illegal for companies to void your warranty or deny coverage under the warranty simply because you used an aftermarket or recycled part."
3. "The FTC says the manufacturer or dealer must show that the aftermarket or recycled part caused the need for repairs before denying warranty coverage."

OP says "McLaren denied my warranty claim because my car has a catless exhaust system and said that it voided my engine warranty." Which is illegal. McLaren needs to do more than that before they can legally deny his warranty claim. You people need to learn your rights and realize that sucking McLaren's cock won't get you anything.

OP, they already have bulletins for the issue published? Get that and give it to your attorney, go sue them. You may have a case.
Except the spirit of Magnuson-Moss is to protect owners who want to use after market parts that are a direct replacement for OEM parts and designed to operate in the same way as the originals. Not parts that are modified and designed to operate differently to OEM spec. It’s not there to protect car modders.

Now I know you are going to reply that the onus is on McLaren to prove the mod caused the failure - but that’s exactly the point - Magnuson Moss isn’t there to cover modified parts. The OP put modified parts on designed to operate differently to OEM spec and alter the performance characteristics of the car.

He may get away with it by suing McLaren if they want to make the problem go away - but it’s absolutely not in the spirit of what Magnuson Moss is there for.
 

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Very true in fact I had two Michelin Cup 2s which had diameters so different that the car lurched to one side during acceleration, that bogus tyre went back to the factory for investigation :)
Surprising, as Michelin's quality control is normally good. Was there a big difference in the date of manufacture?
 

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Surprising, as Michelin's quality control is normally good. Was there a big difference in the date of manufacture?
I can't remember that, I do remember that I ended up meeting the UK Michelin Head Tech guy who bizarrely actually lived 1/4 mile away from me he came to my place and had a great chat I really believe Michelin are way ahead of the competition with their Cup 2 and PS4S products.
I have put PS4S on my 570S and on my 720S and my pal has them on his 675LT for road driving in varied conditions they really are streets ahead of the Maclern P Zeros it is one unapproved modification which I will keep regardless of potential warranty consequences.
 
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