McLaren Life banner

1 - 20 of 57 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
11,177 Posts
Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
i have contacted Mark Kavanagh at the MTC today about our concerns about the test.he kindly emailed me this response after speaking to him at some length,i have reduced it as im not the best at typing.
the car suffered a suspension failure and it was found to be between two sections of hydraulic pipe not torqued correctly and taking in air.this meant that the damping control was not optimal.the loss of roll stiffness and optimal damping therefore allowed the car to roll much more freely in braking/turn in phase causing a balance-change which was triggering a pre-mature ABS intervention.
The car used was PP18 ,This is a pre-production car and although representative of a production car was assembled in the protoype area. We understand that this problem may cause concern amongst our customers but please be assured this specific error cannot occur online with production cars as this build process is done using a digital tool that monitors torque pressures.
With just eighteen hours notice, three cars return to Rockingham later that week (including PP18) and, as witnessed by two journalists from car magazine, set the faster time reffered to at the end of their video. Infact, three laps with three cars set times of between 1:27.5 and 1:28.1. This was all timed and fed back to car magazine who were offered the GPS data for the record.
The cars used were standard cars representative of production cars with configurable corsa tires. We belive that the cars tested by the media should be as can be bought by the customer. Therefore, these cars were in no way set up for track lap times.They were simply the three remaining cars that were from our fleet.
I noticed it was implied int the video that the traction control cannot be disingaged, for the record this is not the case.
Me again,what does this tell us
1,the 12c is up to 1.3 seconds faster than a Gt2 rs around a short circuit,so what will it be on a longer one??
2,As far as im aware these are the first lap times to come from the MTC and if anyone is not sure please email me and i will forward you the original
3,Will anyone who has a 458 be prepared to contact Ferrari and get a personnal response on why their car has suddenly started beating the Gt2rs,when it has been nowhere near in the past,and how they can get their car to do the same(sorry tried not to put that in)
4,KRZYS,dont you dare give up your deposit!!!!!!!!!!
5,will car magazine put any of this in the mag tommorow
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
215 Posts
On point 3 Andy I think I now have a clear idea what ferrari did to get that improvement. (cant reveal source sorry)
It is actually good news for 458 customers as it appears that the 458 can be retrofitted with engine parts etc from the challenge series that reduce weight substantially and improve performance. A 600-620hp 458 that weighs 1450kgs would be a really good car to buy!
I guess the 458 scud will incorporate things like titanium driveshafts, racing seats, separate bank ecus, lightweight wheels etc that can make the car substantially faster.

On no 5, car magazine indeed included it in a small section with the time that Chris did. However this has not been a good retribution to be honest as they complain around the test about the chassis reaction to different road conditions..
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
11,177 Posts
Discussion Starter #3
On point 3 Andy I think I now have a clear idea what ferrari did to get that improvement. (cant reveal source sorry)
It is actually good news for 458 customers as it appears that the 458 can be retrofitted with engine parts etc from the challenge series that reduce weight substantially and improve performance. A 600-620hp 458 that weighs 1450kgs would be a really good car to buy!
I guess the 458 scud will incorporate things like titanium driveshafts, racing seats, separate bank ecus, lightweight wheels etc that can make the car substantially faster.

On no 5, car magazine indeed included it in a small section with the time that Chris did. However this has not been a good retribution to be honest as they complain around the test about the chassis reaction to different road conditions..
surely part of that would be the air in the hydraulics?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
202 Posts
Andy, thanks for that. Would be good if they could publish some footage of that as well as the data?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
202 Posts
It is actually good news for 458 customers as it appears that the 458 can be retrofitted with engine parts etc from the challenge series that reduce weight substantially and improve performance. A 600-620hp 458 that weighs 1450kgs would be a really good car to buy!
Which engine parts could make for a substantial weight reduction?

After all it seemed to have lost 60-70 kg. Normally that involves stripping out the interior, sound insulation etc
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
215 Posts
wheels/tires - 12kgs
exhaust - 5/10kgs
seats -20/30kgs
engine components (driveshafts/ flywheel or whatever) can be easily 20-40kgs. ie the gt2rs lwfw is -15kgs from the GT2/ tt.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
202 Posts
The Sport Auto 458 already had sports seats with some carbon pack. Drive shafts aren't really engine components but I see what you mean.

Was wondering if they had perhaps put a much lighter crank shaft in or a light weight engine block.

If you look at the weight of the Caparo drive train then there is DEFINITELY some room for improvement.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
6,878 Posts
That is brilliant work, andy - many thanks for taking the time to get and post that information. For me, it definitely adds credence to the CAR mag claim, but more importantly demonstrates a proactive attitude from McLaren about addressing these types of concerns. Also, the statement about press cars being customer cars is refreshing and reassuring. All good things.

Cheers. :)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
886 Posts
great update and post. Thanks Andy. Surely this issue will not arrise in any other tests?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
87 Posts
Cutting edge BRITISH technology wins it for me, THE MAC will be astonishing and outstanding in every way i am sure !!! Can't wait !
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
11,177 Posts
Discussion Starter #14
So this may explain the issue with the Car test. But what about the Evo test? Did they not get beaten by the 458 there as well?
sorry 997,im only interested in being quicker than the GT2rs,as i know in my own mind they are a true comparison,and facts tell me that the porsche is quicker than the 458,job done.
ps,every porsche ive owned does what it says on the tin
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
6,878 Posts
sorry 997,im only interested in being quicker than the GT2rs,as i know in my own mind they are a true comparison,and facts tell me that the porsche is quicker than the 458,job done.
ps,every porsche ive owned does what it says on the tin
Ditto, and much more elegantly put than my ranting over the past 24 hours, andy. :)

Agreed that McLaren is learning how to swim in a pool full of sharks (or at least one very big shark) very quickly. At a minimum, I hope that they will tell mag testers how to turn off traction control. I know they said you can actually lap fastest with systems on, but I think that will be heavily driver-dependent. An open-wheel racer like Collins perhaps has a tendency to throw the car around. Not certain about that, but my hunch based on my conversations with race car drivers.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
983 Posts
ps,every porsche ive owned does what it says on the tin
I'm on Porsche #3, and every one of them, with me driving, was faster than claimed on paper. My Cayman R ran a 0-60mph of 3.95s w/ launch control. Quoted at 4.4s. The latest TurboS is quoted at 3.1s, and several testers and customers have reported 2.8 and 2.9s.

I thought one of the CAR interviews was interesting where the Mac rep mentioned that they're getting a lot of Porsche owners.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
691 Posts
One of the things I have always loved about Porsche - they sandbag their performance stats. I can't remember the last time a magazine tested one that didn't rather significantly out-perform the factory claims.

To a lesser degree, Aston Martin do this as well (most of their cars are about 10% quicker to 60 than they claim).

THAT is confidence in your product - and how the best represent themselves.



"Truth will out," eh?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
202 Posts
sorry 997,im only interested in being quicker than the GT2rs,as i know in my own mind they are a true comparison,and facts tell me that the porsche is quicker than the 458,job done.
ps,every porsche ive owned does what it says on the tin
Fair enough Andy. I would agree. As I have been arguing elsewhere it is the fact that all of a sudden that 458 is beating the GT2RS which tells me that 458 is not representing customer spec performance.

Well if the 1.27.5 is anything to go by, then looking at the GT2RS time we can be looking forward to a Hockenheim time VERY close indeed to the 1.07.2 of the Apollo S which would be truly SPECTACULAR given the 12C every day driveability (and the MUCH lower price).

If we can extrapolate we are looking at a Ring time 6-7 sec faster than the GT2RS.

The August issue preview in Sport Auto lists a Super Test of the GT3RS 4.0

So it looks like we have to wait until at least the September issue.....
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
54 Posts
This appeared on ferrarichat, statement from McLaren ? :)

To all future 12C owners : Your car may have a suspension failure, causing excessive body roll in braking and turning, and ultimately leading to premature ABS intervention. However, all these symptoms will go unnoticed by you, and your closest McLaren mechanic (making it quite difficult to diagnose), ... since they went unnoticed by an expert driver on a closed track. The only thing you might notice, is that your car is slower than a Lambo convertible. Have a nice day
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
983 Posts
This appeared on ferrarichat, statement from McLaren ? :)

To all future 12C owners : Your car may have a suspension failure, causing excessive body roll in braking and turning, and ultimately leading to premature ABS intervention. However, all these symptoms will go unnoticed by you, and your closest McLaren mechanic (making it quite difficult to diagnose), ... since they went unnoticed by an expert driver on a closed track. The only thing you might notice, is that your car is slower than a Lambo convertible. Have a nice day
Reply to that: To all 458 owners: Your car may randomly catch fire. This flaw will probably not go unnoticed. In which case, it'll be slower than a parked Prius.
 
1 - 20 of 57 Posts
Top