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Dude that's a video game. I won't hold it against you. ;)
I'm truly sorry about that, I should have done a bit more research before posting like maybe watching the video, I assumed and you know the old saying it made a real ass out of me. Cheers.....??
 

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Well here it is the new record setter, I can't wait to see how the P1 compares to this supercar. Cheers....??

http://www.carbuzz.com/news/2013/1/28/Huayra-Sets-New-Lap-Record-at-Top-Gear-Track-7712715
Huayra record time is over 1sec quicker than the Atom:eek:....not only is the Huayra art work but it proved itself as one heck of a track star. Steve Sutcliffe recently called it his all time favorite for the moment;).......can't wait to see what the P1 will post:D
 

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The Atom suffered from tons of understeer. Never could put the power down. From what I saw from the Huayra lap, it actually had moments of snap oversteer during throttle opening. If the P1 is as planted (or more) than shown in the preview video, it will crush the Huayra time
 

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Looking at how planted the 12c was the P1 should be pretty darn quick.
The One thing with the pagani I don't like is the front, just doesn't do it for me, but as an example of craftsmanship it is amazing.
Jake,
 

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The Atom suffered from tons of understeer. Never could put the power down. From what I saw from the Huayra lap, it actually had moments of snap oversteer during throttle opening. If the P1 is as planted (or more) than shown in the preview video, it will crush the Huayra time
I believe that too. P1 will be faster.

Than THIS Huayra...
 

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I was one of the 'Everyone, literally everyone' credited in that piece who suggested Jalopnik consider writing an article on this. The evidence presented on TeamSpeed was pretty darn clear and I knew those ambulance chasers would be all over this story. Let Pagani squirm - their lap time was heavily influenced by those tires and I guarantee not a single Huayra will ever roll out of the factory on them, unless it is a dedicated track car like the Zonda R.

>8^)
ER
 

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Fake photos! Pagani had normal corsa tires. End of the story!
They aren't fake photos - they are photos that were taken by Top Gear's photographer that was present for the testing.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/motormorph/8248948999/in/set-72157632185084896/

Rowan Horncastle is a professional photographer in the UK and would not harm his reputation by trying to create false conspiracies. All he did was release his photos after the test. It was other individuals who noticed the inconsistencies and brought them to light, using his photos as proof.

And now Pagani has confirmed the story, but they are still insistent the "Trofeo" tires are street legal.

http://jalopnik.com/pagani-admits-they-used-two-sets-of-tires-for-top-gear-450547430

That seems to be the end of the story, and I'll expect the P1 will be free to use similar tires when it is time for their attempt at the Power Lap board.

>8^)
ER
 

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Wow, thanks for all the info, Peloton. Don't know how I feel. On the one hand it definitely seems like they tried a trick, since the press release said Corsas. But at least they answered the allegations instead of just telling everyone to eff off and threatening to sue like Ferrari does. If, however, they are still lying about the tires being street legal, which it certainly seems they may be doing, then that is very bad.

Have to admit, while I am a Pagani fan and I want the Huayra to do well, the gap to the Atom and 12C did seem exaggerated especially since the Pagani and Mac were virtually identical when timed by Evo.

Random thoughts:

- If there is one thing I have learned over the past year, it is that there is nothing "competition" about these things. They are marketing exercises. There are no sanctioning bodies to impose rules, so it seems the motivation to cheat far outweighs the fear of being caught.

- Since Top Gear will likely not put an asterisk beside the Huayra lap time on the board, Pagani would likely do the exact same thing if they could do it over.

- Following basic game theory, this cheating is going to lead to more cheating.

- How stupid are Top Gear staffers for not noticing, or not caring about, a car switching to cut slicks just for the hot lap?

- How stupid are Pagani and Pirelli for not doing a better job disguising the tire?

- If Horatio had a bigger legal dept, Peloton would probably be being sued right now. :p
 

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The car did the lap. Regardless of tires or what ever other tricks. I am a race car driver and I know I push the rules to get an advantage. It's racing! With a car company and sales at stake, I get it.

I am considering the P1 and I hope they do everything they can to get their best lap! If they don't then Mclaren is making a mistake.
 

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- If Horatio had a bigger legal dept, Peloton would probably be being sued right now. :p
I'd have my lawyer contact Pirelli and the case would eventually be dismissed. :D

Pagani spokesman, Luca Venturi, says in his response to the Jalopnik article:

"We used Pirelli PZero Trofeo."

The Trofeo is a DOT approved (aka: street legal) competition/track tire which despite being non-standard on the car would technically absolve them of most of the wrongdoing here, but those tires look like this:



...and the Trofeo R looks like this:



...and according to Pirelli's present documentation, the Trofeo are not available in the sizes that would be fitted to the Huayra. In fact they don't even offer a single 20" size, which would be needed at the rear. The Trofeo R is also not available in proper sizes, but does offer some 20" fitments at least.

The tires on the Huayra during the Top Gear lap looked like this btw for those who haven't clicked on any of the links, and are clearly nothing like the Trofeo at all. They also feature the patterns of dimples used to determine wear on a slick tire as opposed to wear bars that your typical road legal tire would have been constructed with.



Pagani aren't really done explaining this one - at least not to my satisfaction - and I'll be very disappointed if Top Gear do allow the time to stand on the Power Lap board.

>8^)
ER
 

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The car did the lap. Regardless of tires or what ever other tricks. I am a race car driver and I know I push the rules to get an advantage. It's racing! With a car company and sales at stake, I get it.

I am considering the P1 and I hope they do everything they can to get their best lap! If they don't then Mclaren is making a mistake.
This isn't pushing the rules, it was breaking them completely. There are few very simple ones for the Top Gear Power Lap.

The qualifications for the normal Power lap Board is that the car being tested must be road-worthy, and be able to go over a speed bump which is referred to sometimes in the UK as a 'sleeping policeman'.
One important footnote:

...was later beaten by the Ferrari FXX in a time of 1.10.7 but this was later disqualified for using slick tyres.
Plain and simple, Pagani have blatantly cheated by cutting grooves into a set of slicks, as if that small change matters in the level of additional performance they would offer. Then after cheating they lied about it in their press release (for marketing purposes, they say), they got caught by fans who realized something wasn't right with the time, and now it appears they are even attempting to twist the story in the face of evidence that doesn't support it with their admission.

This isn't marketing, this is embarrassing. This kind of behavior should not be applauded.

This is the kind of stuff that Ferrari has felt they can get away with for years. No wonder their neighbors in Modena considered it was a good idea to use some specialized rubber for their big moment on Top Gear which is estimated to be watched by some 350 million people every week in 170 different countries.

The times from the Power Lap are supposed to be representative of what the car is capable of in its standard form. They are meant to be measured against each other on a level playing field - same track, same driver (perhaps) and to earn your spot on the list you have to fit within the rules. The sad thing is that Top Gear must have been complicit with the idea as surely they noticed at some point that the tires were not quite the same as what was on the car earlier, right?. I realize it is first and foremost an entertainment program, and should not necessarily be looked to for facts, but funny enough the opening line of the Top Gear wikipedia page reads:

Top Gear is a British television show about motor vehicles, primarily cars, and is the world's most widely watched factual television programme.
Yeah - factual... wouldn't we like to think so? :rolleyes:

>8^)
ER
 

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Pirelli Corza TM

This isn't pushing the rules, it was breaking them completely. There are few very simple ones for the Top Gear Power Lap.



One important footnote:



Plain and simple, Pagani have blatantly cheated by cutting grooves into a set of slicks, as if that small change matters in the level of additional performance they would offer. Then after cheating they lied about it in their press release (for marketing purposes, they say), they got caught by fans who realized something wasn't right with the time, and now it appears they are even attempting to twist the story in the face of evidence that doesn't support it with their admission.

This isn't marketing, this is embarrassing. This kind of behavior should not be applauded.

This is the kind of stuff that Ferrari has felt they can get away with for years. No wonder their neighbors in Modena considered it was a good idea to use some specialized rubber for their big moment on Top Gear which is estimated to be watched by some 350 million people every week in 170 different countries.

The times from the Power Lap are supposed to be representative of what the car is capable of in its standard form. They are meant to be measured against each other on a level playing field - same track, same driver (perhaps) and to earn your spot on the list you have to fit within the rules. The sad thing is that Top Gear must have been complicit with the idea as surely they noticed at some point that the tires were not quite the same as what was on the car earlier, right?. I realize it is first and foremost an entertainment program, and should not necessarily be looked to for facts, but funny enough the opening line of the Top Gear wikipedia page reads:



Yeah - factual... wouldn't we like to think so? :rolleyes:

>8^)
ER

Tires are under development, together with Pagani. The Trofeo tires gives similar performance to Michelin Pilot Sport Cup + tires for the road.

If the footage would be correct then it's a great shame! Pagani would have lost at most a 1 sec compared to the Michelin Cup tires that are standard on the GT2 RS for example! Let's hope the have a proper explanation to this strange story??
 

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I suspect we will eventually see Trofeo R tires made in the sizes needed for the Huayra, but they will have wear bars instead of slick tire dimple patterns to show degradation; they'll have sizes printed on the sidewall that match the standard tires and not competition size; and they won't look anything like the cut slicks Pagani used during the Top Gear Power Lap. As for the time difference that might account for, it won't really matter as Top Gear are unlikely to make time for another lap. In fact, I will be surprised if Top Gear make any mention this whole situation.

Actually it is getting worse - Pagani are now suggesting via their Twitter account that those "hand crafted Slick type" tires were only fitted during a photo shoot. :rolleyes:



That's just more BS.





>8^)
ER
 
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