[VisualAnt]

unless they're found a way to convert exhaust heat straight into electricity via witchcraft?..

Aren't a few companies using some heat recovery to help power some of the electric systems? I think one of the new Mazdas has a system that fills a capacitor, and I believe some of the BMW efficient dynamics do something along those lines as well?

 

[Shaun]

Aren't a few companies using some heat recovery to help power some of the electric systems? I think one of the new Mazdas has a system that fills a capacitor, and I believe some of the BMW efficient dynamics do something along those lines as well?

The Mazda system takes off-throttle power off the alternator and stores it in the cap

the MGU-H turbos on next year's F1 engines can gather electrical energy directly from the electric motor integrated into the turbo by switching from 'lag assist' to 'generator' mode when the wastegate would normally open under acceleration

as far as I know, there's no way to convert exhaust heat directly into electricity without a turbine to drive a winding in the conventional way, so this rules out the turbo-less 918

 

[benjiwengy]

The Mazda system takes off-throttle power off the alternator and stores it in the cap

the MGU-H turbos on next year's F1 engines can gather electrical energy directly from the electric motor integrated into the turbo by switching from 'lag assist' to 'generator' mode when the wastegate would normally open under acceleration

as far as I know, there's no way to convert exhaust heat directly into electricity without a turbine to drive a winding in the conventional way, so this rules out the turbo-less 918

http://www.heat2power.net/en__principle.php

 

[Napolis]

The Mazda system takes off-throttle power off the alternator and stores it in the cap

the MGU-H turbos on next year's F1 engines can gather electrical energy directly from the electric motor integrated into the turbo by switching from 'lag assist' to 'generator' mode when the wastegate would normally open under acceleration

as far as I know, there's no way to convert exhaust heat directly into electricity without a turbine to drive a winding in the conventional way, so this rules out the turbo-less 918

Correct.

TERS (Turbo energy recovery system)

 

[Shaun]

http://www.heat2power.net/en__principle.php

fairly small power-gen/efficiency increases to be had there. not something the 918 uses either way

I'll stand corrected though, as I didn't realize these sort of things were being trialled in automotive applications

 

[Napolis]

fairly small power-gen/efficiency increases to be had there. not something the 918 uses though

TERS can create enough captured energy to instantly spool the turbos.

Would work well on P1

 

[VisualAnt]

The Mazda system takes off-throttle power off the alternator and stores it in the cap

the MGU-H turbos on next year's F1 engines can gather electrical energy directly from the electric motor integrated into the turbo by switching from 'lag assist' to 'generator' mode when the wastegate would normally open under acceleration

as far as I know, there's no way to convert exhaust heat directly into electricity without a turbine to drive a winding in the conventional way, so this rules out the turbo-less 918

Thanks for the clarification!

 

[benjiwengy]

Correct.

TERS (Turbo energy recovery system)

Thermal energy recovery system. Sorry for the pedantry.

I don't think the proposed MGU-Heat has anything to do with recovering kinetic energy from the turbo. It's a heat exchanger using the heat from the turbo, or something like that.

Gawd knows.

 

[Napolis]

Thermal energy recovery system. Sorry for the pedantry.

I don't think the proposed MGU-Heat has anything to do with recovering kinetic energy from the turbo. It's a heat exchanger using the heat from the turbo, or something like that.

Gawd knows.

Magnetti Mirelli explained it to us as a ceramic motor in the turbo stream that is spun by gases that would otherwise go out the pop off valve that creates electrical energy that is stored and when needed uses that stored electrical energy to instantly spools the turbos.

They called their system Turbo Energy Recovery System TERS but I agree that it's recovering otherwise lost exhaust gas heat/flow.

 

[benjiwengy]

Magnetti Mirelli explained it to us as a ceramic motor in the turbo stream that is spun by gases that would otherwise go out the pop off valve that creates electrical energy that is stored and when needed uses that stored electrical energy to instantly spools the turbos.

They called their system Turbo Energy Recovery System TERS but I agree that it's recovering otherwise lost exhaust gas heat/flow.

In which case, the FIA have backtracked somewhat from their original definition. This is just a second turbo to replace the waste gate and connected to an electric motor.

That's not how the mgu-HEAT was first proposed 6 years ago. Like all things, I guess practical considerations trump ideals.

 

[ZachF]

The motor has 134kW. The battery has 4.7kWh supposedly. So at FULL motor energy output, an motor efficiency of around 0.9, you would be using roughly 150kW, so your 4.7kWh would last... 110 seconds.

How much regen will do, is a big question I guess, that is hard to say.

You do not need the boost for much more than 15 seconds or so at a time I would say?

I am rather amazed that they claim they can do 10km on battery alone though. That would mean in the EPA cycle their usage is 470 Wh per km. I guess thats not too bad though. They should have bought the motor from Tesla, it has half the usage and 400hp.

Actually the losses are slightly higher than that...you're talking about a further 7% loss converting battery storage to electrical current. And the batteries need to be keep within a small temperature range, hence the large cooling apparatuses. I'd bet over 2/3rds of the 200lb weight of the battery bank is for cooling and not the batteries themselves.

The electronic system probably limits you from using the last 20% of the battery bank.

...regarding the Tesla, that has a lot lower drag I bet; no radiators and no downforce (every pound of downforce adds at least one pound of drag)

 

[Shaun]

Thanks for the clarification!

no probs

 

[Shaun]

I don't think the proposed MGU-Heat has anything to do with recovering kinetic energy from the turbo. It's a heat exchanger using the heat from the turbo, or something like that.

Gawd knows.

don't look now, but there's a clue in the name

'MGU' stands for Motor Generator Unit, as in the electrical one connected to the compressor/turbine common shaft

 

[benjiwengy]

don't look now, but there's a clue in the name

'MGU' stands for Motor Generator Unit, as in the electrical one connected to the compressor/turbine common shaft

No one said a motor wasn't involved in generating the power. It's whether kinetic energy or heat energy is powering the motor.

Is a turbo capturing kinetic energy or heat energy? Well I supposed anything related to combustion is heat energy.

But the original proposal made it sound there was going to be energy recovered specifically from lost heat, which would necessitate a heat exchange. Not just another turbo.

So I think your sarcasm is a little unfair.

 

[ftyl]

Turbo regen would be pressure, not heat.

 

[benjiwengy]

Turbo regen would be pressure, not heat.

You'd have thought that would be the common sense approach, but no. Strictly speaking it's heat.

Not in the original spirit of thermal energy recovery, but oh well.