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I am sure I can figure out how to get a set across the pond for you ;)
Certainly interesting data. Fundamentally I agree with your general findings, certainly we see a lot less failures here in the UK due in part to lower ambients I guess. Interesting to note that the 570 uses smaller charge coolers than the super series cars, even the gt4 cars. Running stage 2 tunes here we see relatively small ic temp increase but then I tend to try and run less boost at peak to keep the torque up. Will take the time to look at your data. Thank you.
 

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Discussion Starter #23
Certainly interesting data. Fundamentally I agree with your general findings, certainly we see a lot less failures here in the UK due in part to lower ambients I guess. Interesting to note that the 570 uses smaller charge coolers than the super series cars, even the gt4 cars. Running stage 2 tunes here we see relatively small ic temp increase but then I tend to try and run less boost at peak to keep the torque up. Will take the time to look at your data. Thank you.

Sounds good - thank you for the time to review our findings! Let us know if you have any questions.
 

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Excellent product! I was wondering why there are no such development of aftermarket intercoolers for the Mclaren cars, but here we go one great product came out.

I have few questions if you don't mind, to help the community understand more on our cars, since also I'm new to Mclaren platform.

1- With tuned mclaren on 24psi boost or whatever higher than factory boost, what is the average IAT in reached on street pull o in 1/4 mile, STOCK VS This intercooler Upgrade? From my experience the pulls on dyno (especially pulls on one gear WOT, it will not provide correct info on IAT)

2- Does the Mclaren have heat exchanger for those intercooler? if yes, is that ok as stock or needs also for future upgrade? I have seen other vendor providing a heat exchanger upgrade, but not sure if he meant by that the radiators or the heat exchange of intercooler air

3- Does it provide any sort of additional turbo lag due to large cores/size?

I'm definitely interested, as I'm not a fan of adding methanol system and leaving the basic intercoolers as stock with increased boost or upgraded turbos in future. Thank you for this product.
 

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Discussion Starter #26 (Edited)
Excellent product! I was wondering why there are no such development of aftermarket intercoolers for the Mclaren cars, but here we go one great product came out.


Thank you! Trust me, I was asking myself the same question about 2 months ago. Upgraded intercoolers are, second-only to a good tune, on every other turbo application. Odd it took us this long to get here, but glad I can fill the gap and give back to the community.



I have few questions if you don't mind, to help the community understand more on our cars, since also I'm new to Mclaren platform.


Sure, no worries. Community engagement is vital, so happy to provide feedback.



1- With tuned mclaren on 24psi boost or whatever higher than factory boost, what is the average IAT in reached on street pull o in 1/4 mile, STOCK VS This intercooler Upgrade?


Stock Intercoolers, No tune (approx. 18 psi) - There is a thread here, where member "AWH" posts up a graph of a stock 12C IATs. It a little hard to see since the picture uploaded is small, but if you zoom in, you will see it somewhere between roughly 32 C - 48.9 C. This is about 90 F - 120 F.





Stock Intercoolers, Tune (approx. 22 psi) - Just pinged DynoSpectrum on this since they have more experience than me here with no methanol. Paraphrasing, with ambient around 80 F, they would expect to see IAT around 140-150 F at the end of the pull. Most importantly, I was told they have to let the car cool down for 15 mins to let the temps come back down before they can make another pull. This means that recovery is over 15 mins out.



Renaissance Speed Intercoolers, Tune (approx 30 psi) - At 78 ambient, we saw stable IATs around 80-84 F, which recovery times measured in seconds, not minutes. This is also running much more boost.





From my experience the pulls on dyno (especially pulls on one gear WOT, it will not provide correct info on IAT)


Curious since I have not seen much discrepancy when on the dyno versus the street. But there are a lot of variables at play: cooling fans, heat soak from idling, back to back pulls, gear car is ran at, load applied, etc



2- Does the Mclaren have heat exchanger for those intercooler? if yes, is that ok as stock or needs also for future upgrade? I have seen other vendor providing a heat exchanger upgrade, but not sure if he meant by that the radiators or the heat exchange of intercooler air


Yes, there are two water-to-air heat exchangers located under each front headlight. The intercoolers in the back are air-to-water intercoolers. Once the heat from the boosted air is transferred into the coolant, you have to have a way to cool the coolant (excuse the pun), so you can repeat the cycle; hence the heat exchangers up front. You can keep these as stock, as I imagine most people will. However, you will see greater benefits from upgrading these as well since they also hold more coolant. The more coolant you have in your low temperature circuit, the more energy (heat) it will take for it to increase the coolant temperature. In essence, you can run harder for longer.





3- Does it provide any sort of additional turbo lag due to large cores/size?


Just to be clear, the intercoolers are the exact same size as the factory intercoolers. It has to be this way since there is no more space in the engine bay. Just ask anyone who has had to replace spark plugs on our M838T. So while the cores are slightly larger, the real efficiency gain is by having more coolant in contact with more aluminum fins to cool the intake air.



So no, an increase of turbo lag is not something of concern or noticed on our back to back dyno runs.



I'm definitely interested, as I'm not a fan of adding methanol system and leaving the basic intercoolers as stock with increased boost or upgraded turbos in future. Thank you for this product.


Awesome. If I have answered your questions to your satisfaction, we are still looking for a couple of more signups. Lets push this one over the line and get more data soon. Eager to get these into good hands!
 

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gray_shark said:
2- Does the Mclaren have heat exchanger for those intercooler? if yes, is that ok as stock or needs also for future upgrade? I have seen other vendor providing a heat exchanger upgrade, but not sure if he meant by that the radiators or the heat exchange of intercooler air

Yes, there are two water-to-air heat exchangers located under each front headlight. The intercoolers in the back are air-to-water intercoolers. Once the heat from the boosted air is transferred into the coolant, you have to have a way to cool the coolant (excuse the pun), so you can repeat the cycle; hence the heat exchangers up front. You can keep these as stock, as I imagine most people will. However, you will see greater benefits from upgrading these as well since they also hold more coolant. The more coolant you have in your low temperature circuit, the more energy (heat) it will take for it to increase the coolant temperature. In essence, you can run harder for longer.

Not exactly true.A larger cooling system will only take a bit longer to reach running temperature but once that temperature is reached,it will not cool any better than a system with lesser capacity.
What is important is to reject heat as quickly as possible.increasing the capacity of the system will not improve heat rejection unless it involves more heat exchange surface area(which usually increases capacity)
 

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Discussion Starter #28
Not exactly true.A larger cooling system will only take a bit longer to reach running temperature but once that temperature is reached,it will not cool any better than a system with lesser capacity.
What is important is to reject heat as quickly as possible.increasing the capacity of the system will not improve heat rejection unless it involves more heat exchange surface area(which usually increases capacity)
Apologies, I thought I made the same point. Of course, more coolant will cool better to a limit . But as you approach and possible exceed this limit, is where the larger heat exchangers will come into play.
 

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Discussion Starter #29
Going to have to wrap up this group buy soon... If you are on the fence, now is the time to jump in. Here is a little tease of the stock bolted intercoolers in the middle and the upgraded RenaissanceSpeed intercoolers on the outside. One piece, 100% TIG welded. Nice.

 

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Thank you! Trust me, I was asking myself the same question about 2 months ago. Upgraded intercoolers are, second-only to a good tune, on every other turbo application. Odd it took us this long to get here, but glad I can fill the gap and give back to the community.







Sure, no worries. Community engagement is vital, so happy to provide feedback.







Stock Intercoolers, No tune (approx. 18 psi) - There is a thread here, where member "AWH" posts up a graph of a stock 12C IATs. It a little hard to see since the picture uploaded is small, but if you zoom in, you will see it somewhere between roughly 32 C - 48.9 C. This is about 90 F - 120 F.





Stock Intercoolers, Tune (approx. 22 psi) - Just pinged DynoSpectrum on this since they have more experience than me here with no methanol. Paraphrasing, with ambient around 80 F, they would expect to see IAT around 140-150 F at the end of the pull. Most importantly, I was told they have to let the car cool down for 15 mins to let the temps come back down before they can make another pull. This means that recovery is over 15 mins out.



Renaissance Speed Intercoolers, Tune (approx 30 psi) - At 78 ambient, we saw stable IATs around 80-84 F, which recovery times measured in seconds, not minutes. This is also running much more boost.









Curious since I have not seen much discrepancy when on the dyno versus the street. But there are a lot of variables at play: cooling fans, heat soak from idling, back to back pulls, gear car is ran at, load applied, etc







Yes, there are two water-to-air heat exchangers located under each front headlight. The intercoolers in the back are air-to-water intercoolers. Once the heat from the boosted air is transferred into the coolant, you have to have a way to cool the coolant (excuse the pun), so you can repeat the cycle; hence the heat exchangers up front. You can keep these as stock, as I imagine most people will. However, you will see greater benefits from upgrading these as well since they also hold more coolant. The more coolant you have in your low temperature circuit, the more energy (heat) it will take for it to increase the coolant temperature. In essence, you can run harder for longer.









Just to be clear, the intercoolers are the exact same size as the factory intercoolers. It has to be this way since there is no more space in the engine bay. Just ask anyone who has had to replace spark plugs on our M838T. So while the cores are slightly larger, the real efficiency gain is by having more coolant in contact with more aluminum fins to cool the intake air.



So no, an increase of turbo lag is not something of concern or noticed on our back to back dyno runs.







Awesome. If I have answered your questions to your satisfaction, we are still looking for a couple of more signups. Lets push this one over the line and get more data soon. Eager to get these into good hands!
Thanks for your answers, I’m considering such upgrade in my plan list but not now, by end of November or December this 2019 year
 

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Just grabbed build slot 4. Someone jump in so we can get these built! If you are interested, PM the OP and they can calculate the amount of HP you would see from this upgrade (spoiler alert, it is not zero!).

Excited to see the results!
 

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Discussion Starter #32
Thanks for your answers, I’m considering such upgrade in my plan list but not now, by end of November or December this 2019 year
Awesome, glad to hear! Just to level-set, it is just 50% up front now with a 4-5 week lead time. So if the order is submitted in the next week (10/20), then you are looking at a fulfillment date at the end of November. This lines up with your date.

Also, this is the first and last group buy for these 12C/650S intercoolers since I have resellers lined up and cannot undercut them. If you are seriously interested, now is the time to hold a slot. Worst case scenario, you can always resell them later based on the full MSRP. But you did not hear this from me ;)
 

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Discussion Starter #33
Just grabbed build slot 4. Someone jump in so we can get these built! If you are interested, PM the OP and they can calculate the amount of HP you would see from this upgrade (spoiler alert, it is not zero!).

Excited to see the results!
Yes sir, lots of smart technically minded members on these boards, like yourself! Happy to talk to anyone on the fence who are not sure what sorts of gains to expect at their specific HP level. Depending on your IATs and HP level, the number could surprise you. I certainly was pleasantly surprised by the gains. Lots of good stuff coming down the pipe!
 

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For what it is worth, Thad @ Hypercar Development found IATs of stock 12c's to be higher than those reported earlier in this thread.

Stock IAT's can spike as high as 70 over ambient temps (Fahrenheit) at WOT on the stock system, and 20-40 over ambient at idle on those hot track days! This is your reason for the reduction in performance during track sessions.
If you can effectively bring IATs to within ~5*F of ambient with these ICs, you are looking at a 15-35*F reduction at idle and a 65*F reduction at WOT. That translates to a ~5% HP bump across the entire RPM range and no timing changes due to heat from a long WOT pull... 🤯
 

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Discussion Starter #35
For what it is worth, Thad @ Hypercar Development found IATs of stock 12c's to be higher than those reported earlier in this thread.



If you can effectively bring IATs to within ~5*F of ambient with these ICs, you are looking at a 15-35*F reduction at idle and a 65*F reduction at WOT. That translates to a ~5% HP bump across the entire RPM range and no timing changes due to heat from a long WOT pull... 🤯

Good stuff! :cool:
 

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Discussion Starter #37
Group Buy is Closed.

Congratulations to everyone who secured an early build slot! Can't wait to get these out there in capable hands.
 

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Discussion Starter #40
Super excited to see how these perform, especially with the incoming new turbo setup!
Christmas is coming early for someone! I almost feel bad for the 720s and non TT Lambo's in your area :)


If I pull the trigger on picking up a 650S this week, I'll order a set.

This is a no-brainer
Good luck with the 650S purchase! If this is your first McLaren, you will understand what makes them so special. Also, I bought enough materials to keep just one set on hand as a buffer. If interested, PM with your details and I can pull this set aside.
 
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