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Some people are wondering why Tesla keeps trying to make a supercar out of a 4,900 Lb - 5 seat, 4-door luxury car and not just produce the Roadster. Wondering where all the lap times and comparison tests are between say...the Nevera and a Senna around a road course. Can the Nevera really do an 8.65 quarter and 258 mph? You'd think with all the hype & superiority themed write ups about these BEV's there'd be more questions being asked.

My understanding is the Plaid can't do a 9.4 quarter and 200 mph without this mysterious software update and different rims and tires. If a Dodge Redeye does a 10.4 quarter(on semi-slicks) stock and still tops out at 203+, what would happen if you put a rear-gear set that was so low that it's top speed came out to 175, or 163mph? Would it run low 9's? Hmm...

Still not sure how Tesla is going to get the Roadster under 4,000 Lb when the Nevera is carbon everything and still weighs in at 4,740 Lb.
The roadster is basically the same size as a Model 3. Tesla sold 1:16 scale models. If you swapped out the Model 3's motors for Lucid Air's you'd already be under 4000#. Not saying Tesla has to do that just pointing out the tech already exists today so saying it'll be impossible is really weird. Now, whether they can actually fit their claimed 200Kwh battery in that ... very dubious. I expect they won't and instead improve efficiency to hit their range numbers while back pedaling on the battery size claims.
 

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The roadster is basically the same size as a Model 3. Tesla sold 1:16 scale models. If you swapped out the Model 3's motors for Lucid Air's you'd already be under 4000#. Not saying Tesla has to do that just pointing out the tech already exists today so saying it'll be impossible is really weird. Now, whether they can actually fit their claimed 200Kwh battery in that ... very dubious. I expect they won't and instead improve efficiency to hit their range numbers while back pedaling on the battery size claims.
Yea, I agree. Even if you give them the 50% more density figure from their battery day keynote, then they'd still need 1.3x or so the weight/size of the current battery to get double the range. Although... if it's just 500mile range, actually, that might work. I think the 250m range battery is what like 70kwh, vs the 100w that gets over 340m range.. or something like that. So the same battery, with 50% more capacity could get them around the 500mile range...

So they may not have to back peddle on the batter size claims with regard to range. I dont see how they get to 200kwh though.
 

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The roadster is basically the same size as a Model 3. Tesla sold 1:16 scale models. If you swapped out the Model 3's motors for Lucid Air's you'd already be under 4000#. Not saying Tesla has to do that just pointing out the tech already exists today so saying it'll be impossible is really weird. Now, whether they can actually fit their claimed 200Kwh battery in that ... very dubious. I expect they won't and instead improve efficiency to hit their range numbers while back pedaling on the battery size claims.
I think that you are severely underestimating how much weight cars pick up in their transformation to super high horsepower performance machines. The Model 3 has 487PS. The Roadster, if it wants to even get close to current EV supercar competitors, will need in the region of 2000PS. So take the weight of the Model 3 motors and multiply it by 4. Next, let's look at cooling. You'll need much more cooling for motors and battery and it's not just a matter of having to cool more power, but also the assumption that as a supercar the car will need to work (at least to some degree) on track and for spirited driving.The cooling system on the Nevera, for example, weighs 100kg alone and it's yet to be shown if that's sufficient.

The car will also need bigger brakes, wider wheels, active aerodynamics, beefier suspension - all of that adds weight as well. The idea that the car will weigh anywhere close to 1800kg is outrageously optimistic to say the least, no matter how small the battery might be. If the battery capacity is the promised 200kWh, then the car could easily weigh over 2500kg even if they achieve over 200Wh/kg energy density for the battery pack. Realistically, getting anywhere close to the weight of the all CF Nevera using Alu construction (which they'll very likely use for cost reasons) will be quite the victory as it is and they'll probably have to scale the battery down to 100kWh just to achieve that.

I also wouldn't hold my breath for 600 mile range even if it did have a 200kWh battery. Supercars are not well suited for that. Their Cds are quite high because they need a lot of cooling (which is pretty much pure drag) and they also want to develop a lot of downforce which is even more drag. Then there is the fact that you need really wide tires to put down the power and have the highest possible grip in the corners - which is a range killer too. The Nevera has a Cd of 0.3 (compared to 0.21 of the Plaid for example) in it's low drag configuration. That's almost 50% more. The Nevera promises 340 miles of range on the WLTP cycle, which, based on how overestimating WLTP cycle is, is probably more like 300 TOPS in the real world. That gives you an efficiency of only 40kWh/100 miles. There is not much reason to think the Roadster is gonna do any better, so even with a 200kWh battery, that would be only 500 miles.
 

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The roadster does not need Model 3 x 4 motors. One motor per wheel will suffice. The Lucid Air's motors are lighter weight than the Model 3 AND produce Model S like power.

Thermal management will be a huge problem but .... if the Roadster is really just a street machine that barely completes a single Ring lap for PR then it probably doesn't have to do much better than the Plaid. Brakes will be carbon and weigh less anyway.

I think you're severely underestimating just how close the tech is today if you used a 100kWh battery, and just how much it's changed since the Nevera was originally designed.

Plus severely underestimating Elon's propensity for over promising and under delivering. I just don't believe Tesla will ship an actual BEV track car this decade. The roadster will be an amazing street car.

And we haven't even gotten to Porsche's Mission R prototype, which journalists actually driven on track. It weighs 3300#. The idea that BEV hyper cars can't weigh less than 4000# is just a bizarre refusal to see what's technically possible right now.
 

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The roadster does not need Model 3 x 4 motors. One motor per wheel will suffice. The Lucid Air's motors are lighter weight than the Model 3 AND produce Model S like power.

Thermal management will be a huge problem but .... if the Roadster is really just a street machine that barely completes a single Ring lap for PR then it probably doesn't have to do much better than the Plaid. Brakes will be carbon and weigh less anyway.

I think you're severely underestimating just how close the tech is today if you used a 100kWh battery, and just how much it's changed since the Nevera was originally designed.

Plus severely underestimating Elon's propensity for over promising and under delivering. I just don't believe Tesla will ship an actual BEV track car this decade. The roadster will be an amazing street car.

And we haven't even gotten to Porsche's Mission R prototype, which journalists actually driven on track. It weighs 3300#. The idea that BEV hyper cars can't weigh less than 4000# is just a bizarre refusal to see what's technically possible right now.
I'll believe it when Chris Harris says it's true! 😁
 

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I'll believe it when Chris Harris says it's true! 😁
fair enough. Seeing is believing. Most of this tech is changing a lot faster than people seem to expect. Except battery weight. But that's improving incrementally too, and it adds up over the years. The roadster isn't delayed just because Elon got distracted by trucks and rockets and millennial musicians.
 

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The roadster does not need Model 3 x 4 motors. One motor per wheel will suffice. The Lucid Air's motors are lighter weight than the Model 3 AND produce Model S like power.

Thermal management will be a huge problem but .... if the Roadster is really just a street machine that barely completes a single Ring lap for PR then it probably doesn't have to do much better than the Plaid. Brakes will be carbon and weigh less anyway.

I think you're severely underestimating just how close the tech is today if you used a 100kWh battery, and just how much it's changed since the Nevera was originally designed.

Plus severely underestimating Elon's propensity for over promising and under delivering. I just don't believe Tesla will ship an actual BEV track car this decade. The roadster will be an amazing street car.

And we haven't even gotten to Porsche's Mission R prototype, which journalists actually driven on track. It weighs 3300#. The idea that BEV hyper cars can't weigh less than 4000# is just a bizarre refusal to see what's technically possible right now.
The Nevera motors are comparable in power density to the Lucid motors. The front drive unit (so two motors, inverter and gearbox) weighs 74kg and makes 600PS. The Lucid unit weighs the same 74kg and makes 650PS. The Nevera battery pack density is also comparable to today's best, with 176Wh/kg. Yet it still weighs 2150kg (and it could even be more).

Of course, we still don't know how the Roadster is gonna look like and what the current goals for it are. I don't think that basing those on a show-car from 2017 is too helpful. It could be that they won't bother competing with the EV supercars at all and just make it fast in straight and completely useless in every other performance metric like the Plaid. And that might save some weight, money, or make it possible for the range to be longer. It would still probably be a win for Tesla because they can put against a Nevera in a drag race, show that it's almost as fast and: look, it only costs 1/10th!

As to when we'll see the finished car, if ever, is of course another question...

Bringing race cars into it is pointless. Hillclimb silhouette cars weigh 730kg and have 600PS+. But so what, what does that have to do with anything. Does that mean we should expect every supercar to weigh that much? There is no problem making an EV that's under 4000lb... but making one that has 2000PS and 100kWh+ battery while also being built to survive daily use, function in any weather and provide all the expected comforts like AC and whatever, that IS a problem.
 

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Plus severely underestimating Elon's propensity for over promising and under delivering.
I disagree with that though to some degree. I think he generally over promises, and then yet still manages to over deliver on everything EXCEPT time lines. There he is definitely guilty of over (early) promising and super late deliveries.
 
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