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You mean a hybrid with 440HP electric motor?

"Its turbocharged V4 combustion engine has been cranked to produce 720 hp, while an electric motor at the front axle makes 440 hp. With Bernhard on board, the 919 Evo weighs just 1957 lbs, and it makes far more downforce than the version of this car that competed in the World Endurance Championship (WEC) last year. It even makes more downforce than a modern F1 car. WEC regulations prevent the use of active aerodynamics, too, but the 919 Evo has a drag-reduction system, which allow it to hit nearly 230 mph on the final straight on the 'Ring, while still making loads of downforce everywhere else."
You can copy-and-paste! Good job!

You were the one making a big deal about the lap-time of an electric-only vehicle. My point was how much slower it was than a car that also had an ICE.

If you want to compare the VAG's time with the time of a purely ICE car, you should probably reflect on the fact that thirty-six years ago, on tyres that by modern standards wouldn't be good enough for a lawnmower, with aerodynamics that by modern standards wouldn't be good enough for a saloon car, with a six-speed manual gearbox and iron disc brakes, a Porsche set a time that was only six seconds slower than what your state-of-the-art EV racing car did today.

And by the way, in 1983 the circuit was more difficult than it is today, and the 956's time was for the full circuit, whereas today VW's time excluded the piece of road in front of the Industry Pool gates, meaning that the effective difference between the VW's time and the 956's time of 1983 is only three seconds - even before one accounts for the current circuit's being easier.
 

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You can copy-and-paste! Good job!

If you want to compare the VAG's time with the time of a purely ICE car, you should probably reflect on the fact that thirty-six years ago, on tyres that by modern standards wouldn't be good enough for a lawnmower, with aerodynamics that by modern standards wouldn't be good enough for a saloon car, with a six-speed manual gearbox and iron disc brakes, a Porsche set a time that was only six seconds slower than what your state-of-the-art EV racing car did today.
Reflect on the fact that ICE-only cars haven't improved enough in 36 years to break the 956 record, but the EV record dropped by 40 seconds in only 2.5 years.
 

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Reflect on the fact that ICE-only cars haven't improved enough in 36 years to break the 956 record, but the EV record dropped by 40 seconds in only 2.5 years.
It would be difficult for an ICE-powered prototype to have improved on the 956's time since 1983, as 1983 was the last time that prototypes raced at the circuit....
 

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If only it were possible to rent the track for private testing.
It has always been possible to rent the Nordschleife for private testing, and it has been rented on countless occasions.
To address what I think is your point, it has not been rented for testing prototypes (Group C, BPR, WEC series) because there was no demand for that from the competitors. Several things about the circuit made it unattractive for prototype testing:
- Since 1983 there were no longer any prototype races held there, so there was no direct advantage to be gained by testing in preparation for a series race. The last Formula One race was held there in 1976, when Lauda crashed;
- The circuit's unique characteristics (bumps, ground clearance) meant that the set-up that a team might develop for it had no application for other races on the calendar;
- The long lap and local terrain meant that, in the event of a breakdown (obviously a common occurrence during testing), a lot of extra work was required simply to get a non-running car back to the pits;
- The circuit's narrow trace and lack of run-off areas meant that destructive crashes were much more likely there than on other test circuits - obviously something to be avoided; and
- The fluctuations in local weather (the Nordschleife is in the mountains, and the weather is volatile - it has been known to snow in August) make it difficult to have predictably clear testing sessions.
Also, in 1984 at one end of the Nordschleife they built an anodyne 2.5 mile "GP circuit", and prototype endurance races have regularly been held there. If you ran a prototype in Group C, BPR or WEC at the "Nurburgring" round, it was on that GP circuit, and you might have tested on that, but never on the Nordschleife.

In sum, the reason that no prototype after 1983 beat the 956's record was not that no modern car was faster, but rather that, until last year, nobody ever had a reason to try to beat it.
 

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If only it were possible to rent the track for private testing.
To test for what? There's no race in the world that would be similar to the settings used for the Nurburgring.

If someone wanted to make a car for just one lap of the Ring, they could do even better than the 919 Evo, with just ICE. A billet block motor like the Elmer Thor or even something like an Underground Racing billet V10 would be capable of well over 2000 whp on demand, especially on straights, and could be setup for lower power levels by GPS trace, corner to corner. Obviously a team like Mercedes or Porsche could build a ground up unlimited single lap special that would be well into the 4 minute mark.

Remember, the 956 and 962 were designed for 24 hour endurance racing. Lots of parts are overbuilt for the stress of that and engine power/design is focused on reliability
 

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using a previous years already made and otherwise sitting doing nothing F1 car vs developing a purpose built car to lap the ring...yes sounds like a logical comparison and 'cheap' advertising

The points made by both New Britain and TougeSpirit still stand, there is really no one who cares, most major manf. are going to end up using some kind of electrification, no one cares to throw money at a 'problem' that no one wants a solution for.
 

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using a previous years already made and otherwise sitting doing nothing F1 car vs developing a purpose built car to lap the ring...yes sounds like a logical comparison and 'cheap' advertising
You missed my point. In the last 30 years, if any manufacturer race team had a race car that they thought could beat the Porsche they would have done it just for the hell of it.

In a couple more years, the absolute record will probably be held by a 2000HP EV. There are at least two in development now.
 

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You missed my point. In the last 30 years, if any manufacturer race team had a race car that they thought could beat the Porsche they would have done it just for the hell of it.

In a couple more years, the absolute record will probably be held by a 2000HP EV. There are at least two in development now.
It is not sensical, nor cheap to make a racecar whose only purpose is to run 1 lap at 1 track with no racing series to back it up. As I've already stated, if someone really wanted to do what Volkswagen did here and put a 3000 whp (3500 hp to the crank) Lamborghini V10 in that chassis, that car would break 270 mph on the straight. It would still be hundreds of pounds lighter than the VW while having 6 times more power
 

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In the last 30 years, if any manufacturer race team had a race car that they thought could beat the Porsche they would have done it just for the hell of it.
That is just flat out wrong. Looking at GT3/SP9 race time equivalents a whole boat load of race cars especially if unrestricted could have smashed Bellof's years ago. There simply wasn't a reason to risk it as it didn't matter enough until Porsche presumably with an eye on the Merc decided to ensure they couldn't get the headlines of breaking the overall with that car.
 

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It is not sensical, nor cheap to make a racecar whose only purpose is to run 1 lap at 1 track with no racing series to back it up. As I've already stated, if someone really wanted to do what Volkswagen did here and put a 3000 whp (3500 hp to the crank) Lamborghini V10 in that chassis, that car would break 270 mph on the straight. It would still be hundreds of pounds lighter than the VW while having 6 times more power
Try reading again...

Honda already had an obsolete race car. They took it to Bonneville just for the hell of it. No manufacturer LMP team wanted some headlines for breaking Porsche's record with their obsolete car? That's what Porsche did with the 919.

Too late now. ICE will be dead soon. RIP.
 

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Try reading again...

Honda already had an obsolete race car. They took it to Bonneville just for the hell of it. No manufacturer LMP team wanted some headlines for breaking Porsche's record with their obsolete car? That's what Porsche did with the 919.

Too late now. ICE will be dead soon. RIP.
So what is your argument - that prior to the modified 919 there was no racing car in the world that was capable of beating Bellof's 6:11?
 

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You missed my point. In the last 30 years, if any manufacturer race team had a race car that they thought could beat the Porsche they would have done it just for the hell of it.

In a couple more years, the absolute record will probably be held by a 2000HP EV. There are at least two in development now.
Totally...30 years of tech and it was only Porsche who could beat their own record. These other guys missed a golden opportunity to give everyone a big ol' nose thumbin'

The time was beaten by what, almost a minute? At that level of vehicle that gap is pretty huge, and you are saying that no one else who has comparable cars could have broken the original record? The reason they did it is now its cemented and its still Porsche who holds it. Perhaps they just wanted to make sure they were always the top dog in their own backyard? Or maybe you are right, maybe it took 30+ years to find almost minute, because beating the time by those other however many seconds was totally not possible.

Oh well as you say ICE is dead anyway, might as well give up on almost every form of motorsport currently going. Other than FE :confused:
 

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Try reading again...

Honda already had an obsolete race car. They took it to Bonneville just for the hell of it. No manufacturer LMP team wanted some headlines for breaking Porsche's record with their obsolete car? That's what Porsche did with the 919.

Too late now. ICE will be dead soon. RIP.
So you're saying that all those other LMP teams should waste time and resources that could be spent developing their car for the season and trying to win a championship on an effort that has absolutely no relation to the tracks that these cars would run on during the season? Nice... Think about why Porsche made the 919 Evo AFTER pulling out of the series
 

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Marketing?
Yes, it was always possible that a car company would decide that, for marketing purposes, it would be worth the effort and expense required to go after a new Nordschleife outright record. That was certainly part of Porsche's and VW's recent motivation. It was just that, prior to Porsche and the 919, no car company thought it would be worth that effort and expense.

However, the point that we have been addressing is that a forum member has been arguing that 1+1=3. Specifically, he wrote:
You missed my point. In the last 30 years, if any manufacturer race team had a race car that they thought could beat the Porsche they would have done it just for the hell of it.
which was a preposterous assertion that would not have been made by anyone who knows even the slightest thing about racing cars.
 
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