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@lolachampcar thanks for the insight/reply. I too have reservations on the other guys coming in, but I just dont find myself enjoying the Tesla product, for me it does a lot well, except be entertaining cant pinpoint it, just feels like something they built to do A-B and not worry about how that happens, I suppose some like that (probably most). Im holding out hope that the Taycan does something different there.
I suspect like the commercial says, you are just looking for soul. Tesla is a pure engineering effort and not the Mac passionate type of engineering effort.

Funny how some I talk to use the same types of arguments when explaining why their F car is better than a Mac. The soul/passion versus cold hard engineering approaches......

I'm just happy we live in a world where you can drive both a Mac, Model S and everything in-between. There is something for everyone. Regretfully, the world is not kind enough that I can drive Mikey's track day car :( At least I can live vicariously through his exploits as he is kind enough to share. First world problems for sure.
 

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I suspect like the commercial says, you are just looking for soul. Tesla is a pure engineering effort and not the Mac passionate type of engineering effort.

Funny how some I talk to use the same types of arguments when explaining why their F car is better than a Mac. The soul/passion versus cold hard engineering approaches......
True, but doesn't it depend on for what purpose the engineering is being done? If the purpose is mere transportation, getting from A to B and nothing more than that, you would engineer one thing. If the purpose is getting from A to B and enjoying doing so, you would engineer a different thing.

Ferrari has a different mentality from McLaren, but both organisations are dedicated to building cars that people are passionate to drive. Apart from their juvenile obsession with 0-60 times, Tesla manifest little appreciation of people's passion for driving. It makes sense for Tesla to focus on autonomous cars, and maybe buses.
 

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True, but doesn't it depend on for what purpose the engineering is being done? If the purpose is mere transportation, getting from A to B and nothing more than that, you would engineer one thing. If the purpose is getting from A to B and enjoying doing so, you would engineer a different thing.

Ferrari has a different mentality from McLaren, but both organisations are dedicated to building cars that people are passionate to drive. Apart from their juvenile obsession with 0-60 times, Tesla manifest little appreciation of people's passion for driving. It makes sense for Tesla to focus on autonomous cars, and maybe buses.
I suspect that missing element in Tesla derives from the top, i.e., Elon. Maybe the time has come for Tesla to invest in a day-to-day manager who really gets cars and driving, and bump Elon up to some more Chairman- or CTO-like role.

In this regard, e-car competition from Porsche (Taycan), Mercedes and others should be a good thing - it will hopefully pressure Tesla to provide more of what people expect in a car priced like the Model S and X. Eventually the same pressure will come to bear on the Model 3 and Y. For one thing, quality control needs to improve. So does the ordering/delivery experience, at least based on my experience.

Tesla's opportunity to really deliver that "hard-core smack down" to ICE cars comes with the new Roadster. I hope they have the smarts to put the focus on to driving experience. Forget the acceleration - that's easy and a given. Show what you can do with handling (torque vectoring), braking (dynamic), aerodynamics, steering feel, etc. Get some serious development drivers to shake the car out on the track.

I can manage without a Pagani-like interior, but for a car of that order, driving experience is what I would like above all.
 

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……. Apart from their juvenile obsession with 0-60 times, Tesla manifest little appreciation of people's passion for driving…..
Most of our driving unfortunately is stop go and 90 degree cornering, thats city/town driving. 0-to speed is all the passion we get! And it is fun, wolf in sheeps clothing ….

The USA has developed a car that the world needs, the best EV on the market today, and you as a USA citizen owe it to your former country of residence to support and evangelize Tesla. Go buy one and join the Teslaratti ….
;)
 

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The USA has developed a car that the world needs, the best EV on the market today, and you as a USA citizen owe it to your former country of residence to support and evangelize Tesla. Go buy one and join the Teslaratti ….
;)
I have always been both proud and grateful to be an American, but recently, between Trump, Ocasio-Cortez, the Kardashians and the iPad-on-wheels, I have been forced to reassess those sentiments. :(
 

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One of those things is not like the other ones.

An immigrant entrepreneur who actually creates tremendous value in both sustainable transport/energy and rockets. Sounds like what I thought America was before Thump came along.

Those that dig at his compensation should try understanding the milestones he must achieve to make the compensation package and actually look up his compensation from the last few years instead of relying on click bait to take uninformed digs; or not.
 

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One of those things is not like the other ones.

An immigrant entrepreneur who actually creates tremendous value in both sustainable transport/energy and rockets. Sounds like what I thought America was before Thump came along.

Those that dig at his compensation should try understanding the milestones he must achieve to make the compensation package and actually look up his compensation from the last few years instead of relying on click bait to take uninformed digs; or not.
OK, I admit I merely skimmed the NYT article about Musk's compensation package, so I have removed that comment from my earlier post.

No argument that Elon has accomplished remarkable things and is a visionary. The question remains whether he is the right person as CEO to move Tesla forward from start-up to maturity and with growing competition from established quality auto manufacturers. That's surely a full-time job, for a start.

I found the reports of him sleeping on-site and burning out trying to get the Model 3 production up to speed puzzling. That's not a CEO job, and in a sense, it's a CEO failure if the right people to accomplish that have not been put in place in the management structure. It's also not a sustainable approach to growing Tesla, especially with Musk having many other interests.
 

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Discussion Starter #711
OK, I admit I merely skimmed the NYT article about Musk's compensation package, so I have removed that comment from my earlier post.

No argument that Elon has accomplished remarkable things and is a visionary. The question remains whether he is the right person as CEO to move Tesla forward from start-up to maturity and with growing competition from established quality auto manufacturers. That's surely a full-time job, for a start.

I found the reports of him sleeping on-site and burning out trying to get the Model 3 production up to speed puzzling. That's not a CEO job, and in a sense, it's a CEO failure if the right people to accomplish that have not been put in place in the management structure. It's also not a sustainable approach to growing Tesla, especially with Musk having many other interests.
I disagree. That is what more CEOs should be capable of.

Steve Jobs was into the details of the company. He knew what was bs by the engineers and what was real. And when something was real, he moved heaven and earth to make it happen. Cleared out people that didnt matter or worse, were impediments. That kind of attention to detail, not just on the product, but also on the development side is super important to getting things done right. Most CEOs want to "not do anything" to screw up their golden parachute. Musk moved their production up to over 5000 units per week in an outstandingly short amount of time. Something that would have taken a "traditional" CEO years to accomplish. Thats by being on site and solving problems with his team.

I think what you posit above that is a very fair assessment. Is he the right person for the job, currently and in the long term moving forward. I look at a founder like Bill Gates and you see it can and has been done. I personally think Elon is the right person to get things done. He's frayed and quirky at times. And you wonder if he has enough attention for both SpaceX and Tesla/Solar projects. It's a fair question and criticism. My money is on him. He's a doer. He's also part PT Barnum, which puts a lot of people off, but his antics have generated billions in free advertising. So a bit of ying and yang. As always, YMMV.
 

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I have always been both proud and grateful to be an American, but recently, between Trump, Ocasio-Cortez, the Kardashians and the iPad-on-wheels, I have been forced to reassess those sentiments. :(
:)
After the demise/sell-off of the British car manufacturing industry I overcame my negative thoughts about British made cars and bought a McLaren — very happy. So tighten up your belt, overcome your negativity and help to get the Europeans to take a look at this USA car — get on board.
;)
 

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Discussion Starter #714
Tesla chief executive Elon Musk thinks that once self-driving cars become widely used, traditional human-driven vehicles may need to be banned.
“It’s too dangerous. You can’t have a person driving a two-tonne death machine,” said Musk during an appearance at Nvidia’s annual developers conference, where he discussed Tesla’s ambitions for autonomous-cars.


https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2015/mar/18/elon-musk-self-driving-cars-ban-human-drivers
That article is a bit slanted in that in recent interviews, he has said much the same thing. He goes to pains in the interview to note that he doesnt necessarily want that, but that may be the outcome. Knowing all the nannystate govt bodies, that may well eventually be the outcome. Objectively it's difficult to dispute. People suck (in general) and at driving.

Beyond the 40000 annual deaths in the US, you only have to drive in NJ for a day to realize just how absolutely pathetic the average NJ driver is. There are no reflexes or just de minimis common sense judgement. The right lane has become the de facto passing lane. If you think you're above road/rage or cannot understand it, I defy you to commute around northern NJ for a month and see what kind of person you become. All the sudden you will believe in the 2nd amendment with regard to mounting dual 50 cals on your hood.
 

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NB,
Take heart. Depending upon your age, you will likely not live to see ICE banned or, if you do, you will likely not be driving when it happens.
 

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Wow, only 46 seconds slower than the time set by a car with an ICE....
You mean a hybrid with 440HP electric motor?

"Its turbocharged V4 combustion engine has been cranked to produce 720 hp, while an electric motor at the front axle makes 440 hp. With Bernhard on board, the 919 Evo weighs just 1957 lbs, and it makes far more downforce than the version of this car that competed in the World Endurance Championship (WEC) last year. It even makes more downforce than a modern F1 car. WEC regulations prevent the use of active aerodynamics, too, but the 919 Evo has a drag-reduction system, which allow it to hit nearly 230 mph on the final straight on the 'Ring, while still making loads of downforce everywhere else."
 
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