[dr.sb]

Hello to everyone on this forum. As you can see I am completely new to the forum.

I was considering the Mclaren Spider to be stable mate to 458 Italia that is arriving before Christmas this year. I have to be honest, being British, I really wanted to fall in love with the Mclaren MP4-12C, but maybe my being quite shallow, I mainly based my purchase on aesthetics. I loved the maclarens suspension. I have an R8 at the moment with magentic ride and it blew the pants off that. I have used an S class with the air suspension and frankly the suspension was better than that when cruising and very taught when putting the foot down. It felt very planted. However, on the flip side, maybe the 458 is slower etc, but it just seemed to bring out these boyhood desires and dreams I had of owning a bright red Ferrari (my first), although actually I have it ordered in white (someone told me that white is the new red on the 458, how right they were). Also, being in the 458 cockpit, for me, it just seemed to do something more than in the maclarens. That is just me.

I am hoping to get rid of the R8 and replace it with the maclaren spider. I am hoping that that little bit of lack of excitement I was getting from the coupe, would be dissipated once the roof was down?

I would appreciate everyones thoughts on this. I have, just today, been in touch with the guys at Mclaren in London and they say that I can not really get a spider yet obviously and they do not know the wait list times. Would my getting a coupe in the meantime help?

Thank you all.

Sunny

Ps. being british I really really wanted to love the Mclaren coupe, for me, it just lost out to the 458. Hopefully the spider can change all that.

 

[6th element]

Welcome to the forum.

If you don't find the coupe exciting, I doubt the Spider will be much different for you. Besides the roof, it is identical to the coupe. Buying a coupe, just so you can get a Spider sooner seems like a very expensive way to find that out. But, alas, if you do, you will probably at least discover that with the 25 PS update, it will make your Ferrari feel even slower.

My 2 cents.

 

[Chest Rockwell]

The only thing that I can suggest is that you go drive the McLaren before you draw any conclusions about it. Once you have done that, you first impressions will seem irrelevant. Trust me!

 

[dr.sb]

Welcome to the forum.

If you don't find the coupe exciting, I doubt the Spider will be much different for you. Besides the roof, it is identical to the coupe. Buying a coupe, just so you can get a Spider sooner seems like a very expensive way to find that out. But, alas, if you do, you will probably at least discover that with the 25 PS update, it will make your Ferrari feel even slower.

My 2 cents.

Fair point. I do like the fact that Maclaren updates all customers cars for free. That is one huge advantage over Ferrari. If it was raw speed and power I was after, I would have gone for the GTR and saved myself a whole lot of money on top. When you buy a supercar you buy childhood dreams and i succumbed to that. Of course the maclaren was exciting, but not as much as the 458 to me. Do poles on FB or with your friends about how each looks stagnant...the 458 won hands down with my friends. I did not base my choice on that, but it was interesting to see. The maclaren doors, like the lamborghini doors, have always been something I have really wanted on a car. The doors really really pull me towards the maclaren. I compare my R8 to the mac and the R8 seems like a toy compared to it. Now that I can have the luxury of having another such super car in the garage, well actually not just in the garage, but to drive properly (I have driven the R8 48000 miles in 23 months), I am considering the spider. There are still other options, I can get the gallardo replacement which will be out next year or get the 458 spider/noble m600/aston martin vanquish. Plenty of options, but I went with the 458 at the time because it is what made my inner child the happiest. Now I can have another, I am looking at what I considered 2nd best (only just) before. The excitement thing is all respective when you compare. I had both cars for weekends from dealers and the reaction I got from kids was much more with the 458...that really hit a spot with me too.

Clearly both amazing cars. I will be lucky to own both potentially.

 

[dr.sb]

The only thing that I can suggest is that you go drive the McLaren before you draw any conclusions about it. Once you have done that, you first impressions will seem irrelevant. Trust me!

Sorry, maybe my initial post did not make it clear, but I have driven both the cars. Yes not to limits I will agree and maybe that is where I am going wrong, I do not know.

Being british I genuinely want to love the mac. Help sell it to me.

I think the spider for some reason, again because of my inner child I imagine, will bring back that excitement for me?

 

[uid0]

I know this makes me a raging stickler, but MacLaren makes baby strollers...

With that said, if the 458 is what makes your inner child squeal, then go buy the 458. Both cars are extremely close for the everyday driver (McLaren a little more comfortable, and a little faster) from what I've read. I have zero interest in the 458, so I haven't done any personal comparisons, and that is my point. I've wanted a McLaren since I was a kid, and come Wednesday my childhood dream will come true. Even if the 458 was a "better" car, I would still be buying the 12C. If the 458 makes you all warm and fuzzy, go buy a 458

 

[dr.sb]

I know this makes me a raging stickler, but MacLaren makes baby strollers...

With that said, if the 458 is what makes your inner child squeal, then go buy the 458. Both cars are extremely close for the everyday driver (McLaren a little more comfortable, and a little faster) from what I've read. I have zero interest in the 458, so I haven't done any personal comparisons, and that is my point. I've wanted a McLaren since I was a kid, and come Wednesday my childhood dream will come true. Even if the 458 was a "better" car, I would still be buying the 12C. If the 458 makes you all warm and fuzzy, go buy a 458

Wow, did not anticipate hostility. Maybe reading my post would help. I have a 458 on order (which i ordered 18 months ago, which will be arriving in December), but I am looking at a stable mate for it to replace the R8. Not really too keen on having the spider 458, because it would be much the same, I was just looking for advice and opinions and people who have proper experience in the Mac (ie the owners like yourselves) to give me the feedback and confidence to put the money down on the Mac.

One thing I will say is that there is not such animosity on the Ferrari chat room towards Mac owner.

Genuinely, both cars are phenomenal. I fulfilled my childhood dream by ordering the 458 (Im only 27 and lucky enough to be able to do that). Now I am looking for a different experience and something to sit nicely along with the 458. The fact that I am on this forum and asking for opinion and advice regarding ordering one, does that not show that clearly it excited me?

All I look for is input from owners to tell me about their experiences. Flaws/benefits. etc. I drive my cars a lot. Would drive this car approx 15000 miles a year. So I really need to be sold on it. 2 days of test driving cant give me the experience all you owners have.

 

[uid0]

There was no hostility meant in my post, and I apologize if I came across that way. My only point is that is feels like you're trying to get people to sell you on buying a 12C Spider which, imho, is the wrong angle to take.

I really really wanted to love the Mclaren coupe, for me, it just lost out to the 458

Clearly both amazing cars. I will be lucky to own both potentially.

Being british I genuinely want to love the mac. Help sell it to me.

I have read every post you made, word for word, so please don't assume that I haven't. My only point was that after having looked at both of these cars, you ended up leaning towards the 458. That's awesome, nothing wrong with it at all. And if you want to replace your R8 with a 12C Spider, that's also awesome. I'm just saying don't try to make people sell you something just because you think you want it. You tried both, you loved the 458. Wait until the Spider is out and go try it again (asking us what we think of the Spider is just going to be full of conjecture since none of us have had an opportunity to drive one either).

If you don't find the coupe exciting, I doubt the Spider will be much different for you.

This a thousand times! *literally* the only differences between the Coupe and the Spider is the face that the roof comes off and the display window over the engine is smaller. McLaren themselves have said that the styling of the car itself hasn't changed between the 2 models. So if you drove a 12C coupe and you feel it would have been perfect with the roof off, you just need to wait a couple more months and then go do that test drive again with the roof off

 

[dr.sb]

There was no hostility meant in my post, and I apologize if I came across that way. My only point is that is feels like you're trying to get people to sell you on buying a 12C Spider which, imho, is the wrong angle to take.







I have read every post you made, word for word, so please don't assume that I haven't. My only point was that after having looked at both of these cars, you ended up leaning towards the 458. That's awesome, nothing wrong with it at all. And if you want to replace your R8 with a 12C Spider, that's also awesome. I'm just saying don't try to make people sell you something just because you think you want it. You tried both, you loved the 458. Wait until the Spider is out and go try it again (asking us what we think of the Spider is just going to be full of conjecture since none of us have had an opportunity to drive one either).



This a thousand times! *literally* the only differences between the Coupe and the Spider is the face that the roof comes off and the display window over the engine is smaller. McLaren themselves have said that the styling of the car itself hasn't changed between the 2 models. So if you drove a 12C coupe and you feel it would have been perfect with the roof off, you just need to wait a couple more months and then go do that test drive again with the roof off

Fair points. Sorry for misunderstanding you.

Thank you for your input. I appreciate that no one here has driven the spider .

Maybe whilst driving the Mac I missed some of its good points because I was too busy looking for its bad ones? I do not know. I clearly wanted the Ferrari a lot. But now I have that I want a more balanced approach between the 458 spider and Mac spider. You say there should be no real driving experience difference. So I should get the Mac for another test drive really right?

What were the upsides for yourselves compared to the 458 and what are the negatives?

i love the 458 servicing plan for 7 years (I drive my cars a lot) I loved its looks. Did not like that they charge for the upgrade packs. Loved the grip on the road. Can use it as an every day car. The doors of the mac, in the uk, difficulty parking. (Although i love the doors).

Tell me things I should actively look out for when comparing. I am clearly quite inexperienced when it comes to cars and like I said I just went on childhood dreams quite honestly. Now I want my head to rule the heart a bit more...

 

[6th element]

Fair points. Sorry for misunderstanding you.

Thank you for your input. I appreciate that no one here has driven the spider .

Maybe whilst driving the Mac I missed some of its good points because I was too busy looking for its bad ones? I do not know. I clearly wanted the Ferrari a lot. But now I have that I want a more balanced approach between the 458 spider and Mac spider. You say there should be no real driving experience difference. So I should get the Mac for another test drive really right?

What were the upsides for yourselves compared to the 458 and what are the negatives?

i love the 458 servicing plan for 7 years (I drive my cars a lot) I loved its looks. Did not like that they charge for the upgrade packs. Loved the grip on the road. Can use it as an every day car. The doors of the mac, in the uk, difficulty parking. (Although i love the doors).

Tell me things I should actively look out for when comparing. I am clearly quite inexperienced when it comes to cars and like I said I just went on childhood dreams quite honestly. Now I want my head to rule the heart a bit more...

I'll try to help.

It's difficult to say what you should look out for, since we don't know what is important for you. You've checked off the childhood dream with the Ferrari, so that is great.

It seems you intend to put a lot of miles on the car, so the optional comfort mode on the 12C would probably be appreciated. Many owners here, myself included, are racking up many more miles than we thought we would, simply because the car is so brilliant to drive over long distances.

You mention you are not solely interested in raw speed and power. Presumably, however, you still like a spirited drive and taking the odd corner at speed. In this regard, there are some definite differences between the cars. The McLaren will tend to stay flatter throughout the braking zone and the corner, due to its air brake and active damping system. Also, the brake steer system will help eliminate understeer entering the corner, as well as out of it.

The hydraulic suspension on the 12C also allowed the removal of anti-roll bars, so each wheel has truly independent articulation over bumps and rough surfaces. Definitely, one thing to compare would be the composure of the chassis over some of your bad "B" roads over there and how effectively you can use the 12C's traction in various situations.

These are just some of things that make the 12C a McLaren and why it is capable of some of the amazing things that it can do. I have driven a 458 and find that it is a very good car. I would say the main difference that I found, besides the 12C being noticeably faster, is that the Ferrari appears set up to make the driver feel very busy. For example, the steering ratio is overly quick, the chassis rolls side to side more and generally moves around more underneath you. Coupled with the extra noise from the naturally aspirated motor, it does a great job to make you feel "racy", even if you are not actually going as fast as the McLaren. The 12C, on the other hand, is designed to assassinate every piece of tarmac in your sight, with the precision of sniper's rifle. When you really become one with it, you find that you can drive it with nuanced flexes of your wrists and ankle and place the car literally inch-perfect anywhere on the road, even at high speed and no matter the condition of the road's surface underneath. At that point, you really begin to understand the technology involved, as the car can just do things that other cars cannot. That is one of the things many 12C owners find exhilarating about the car; I know I still get out after almost every drive shaking my head in disbelief of the car's sheer capabilities.

In specific regard to the Spider, it should also be noted that the 12C's carbon tub chassis guarantees no loss of rigidity and therefore no extra weight for bracing. Literally, the only weight gained is the folding roof's mechanism. The result will be a Spider that is just as sharp and rewarding to drive as the coupe, which is uncommon for convertible versions of supercar coupes.

I hope that gives you some ideas. Really you can't go wrong with either car, coupe or Spider versions of each. McLaren and Ferrari are duking it out for supremacy and are both on top of their respective games. I am excited to see the Gallardo replacement, too, but I now have the feeling it will be obsolete relative to the McLaren even when it arrives. I think it is going to share a frame with the next R8 which is still tubular in design, perhaps with some composite components, but nothing like McLaren's MonoCell. Also, it is possible that 12C owners will get another power upgrade, in which case the performance gap will be too large for the Lambo to bridge.

 

[Mac 1]

This sounds like a joke.IMO the Mac has the 458 beat in every way.

 

[Italia]

This sounds like a joke.IMO the Mac has the 458 beat in every way.

There's no question the 12C makes a technological statement. But do yourself a favour if you don't already own a 458 or test driven one.

Take one out for a spirited drive, you might be pleasantly suprised

I've driven the 12C and love it, I will be taking another just registered demo for an extended drive next week with the view of having a serious discussion with the dealer afterwards.

I want something to compliment everything Ferrari stands for, sexy design, F1 pedigree, performance and technology, emotion and best of all the fact that in a 458 you are buying a dream.

The 12C attacks these virtues from a completely different standpoint, there's no double up when pairing it with a 458.

Of course the 12C on paper has the better performance credentials but they are micro-increments, the mac upgrades are great, lets hope there's another 25 soon, but only a handful of drivers can take these cars to the limit safely and able to appreciate the difference between 3 tenths of a second faster acceleration.

That's my 12Cents worth

 

[falb]

My advice is to get a 458 spyder and 12C hardtop. It seems like the 458 spine tingling exhaust is well enhance by the drop top, although the media have stated it makes the chassis a touch more flexy.

Seems like you need both itches scratched and you can!! Buy them both and enjoy it.

I have a friend that has more than one 458,599 and a 12C. He enjoys all of them....but does love the 12C.

 

[Italia]

Cl too

My advice is to get a 458 spyder and 12C hardtop. It seems like the 458 spine tingling exhaust is well enhance by the drop top, although the media have stated it makes the chassis a touch more flexy.

Seems like you need both itches scratched and you can!! Buy them both and enjoy it.

I have a friend that has more than one 458,599 and a 12C. He enjoys all of them....but does love the 12C.

Thanks for the heads up!

Good advice but with an 18-24 month wait on the 458 spider it's getting close to the end of the model cycle, so either wait for the 458 Scud version or replacement 458 sometime in 15/16.

 

[dr.sb]

There's no question the 12C makes a technological statement. But do yourself a favour if you don't already own a 458 or test driven one.

Take one out for a spirited drive, you might be pleasantly suprised

I've driven the 12C and love it, I will be taking another just registered demo for an extended drive next week with the view of having a serious discussion with the dealer afterwards.

I want something to compliment everything Ferrari stands for, sexy design, F1 pedigree, performance and technology, emotion and best of all the fact that in a 458 you are buying a dream.

The 12C attacks these virtues from a completely different standpoint, there's no double up when pairing it with a 458.

Of course the 12C on paper has the better performance credentials but they are micro-increments, the mac upgrades are great, lets hope there's another 25 soon, but only a handful of drivers can take these cars to the limit safely and able to appreciate the difference between 3 tenths of a second faster acceleration.

That's my 12Cents worth

+1. Like I said as above, I bought my dream and now to look at the Mclaren to compliment the 458 in the stable

 

[dr.sb]

I'll try to help.

It's difficult to say what you should look out for, since we don't know what is important for you. You've checked off the childhood dream with the Ferrari, so that is great.

It seems you intend to put a lot of miles on the car, so the optional comfort mode on the 12C would probably be appreciated. Many owners here, myself included, are racking up many more miles than we thought we would, simply because the car is so brilliant to drive over long distances.

You mention you are not solely interested in raw speed and power. Presumably, however, you still like a spirited drive and taking the odd corner at speed. In this regard, there are some definite differences between the cars. The McLaren will tend to stay flatter throughout the braking zone and the corner, due to its air brake and active damping system. Also, the brake steer system will help eliminate understeer entering the corner, as well as out of it.

The hydraulic suspension on the 12C also allowed the removal of anti-roll bars, so each wheel has truly independent articulation over bumps and rough surfaces. Definitely, one thing to compare would be the composure of the chassis over some of your bad "B" roads over there and how effectively you can use the 12C's traction in various situations.

These are just some of things that make the 12C a McLaren and why it is capable of some of the amazing things that it can do. I have driven a 458 and find that it is a very good car. I would say the main difference that I found, besides the 12C being noticeably faster, is that the Ferrari appears set up to make the driver feel very busy. For example, the steering ratio is overly quick, the chassis rolls side to side more and generally moves around more underneath you. Coupled with the extra noise from the naturally aspirated motor, it does a great job to make you feel "racy", even if you are not actually going as fast as the McLaren. The 12C, on the other hand, is designed to assassinate every piece of tarmac in your sight, with the precision of sniper's rifle. When you really become one with it, you find that you can drive it with nuanced flexes of your wrists and ankle and place the car literally inch-perfect anywhere on the road, even at high speed and no matter the condition of the road's surface underneath. At that point, you really begin to understand the technology involved, as the car can just do things that other cars cannot. That is one of the things many 12C owners find exhilarating about the car; I know I still get out after almost every drive shaking my head in disbelief of the car's sheer capabilities.

In specific regard to the Spider, it should also be noted that the 12C's carbon tub chassis guarantees no loss of rigidity and therefore no extra weight for bracing. Literally, the only weight gained is the folding roof's mechanism. The result will be a Spider that is just as sharp and rewarding to drive as the coupe, which is uncommon for convertible versions of supercar coupes.

I hope that gives you some ideas. Really you can't go wrong with either car, coupe or Spider versions of each. McLaren and Ferrari are duking it out for supremacy and are both on top of their respective games. I am excited to see the Gallardo replacement, too, but I now have the feeling it will be obsolete relative to the McLaren even when it arrives. I think it is going to share a frame with the next R8 which is still tubular in design, perhaps with some composite components, but nothing like McLaren's MonoCell. Also, it is possible that 12C owners will get another power upgrade, in which case the performance gap will be too large for the Lambo to bridge.

Thank you for the advice 6th element. Having a current R8 I am not really leaning towards the Lambo anyway. Want something that doesn't have too many cars sharing its platform with. Slightly devalues that car for me. Ie the lambo will share components from the R8 and some from 911? Mclaren would be my choice a long way before the lambo.

Thank you again for taking the time out to explain to me what to look out for.


Sunny

 

[6th element]

Thank you for the advice 6th element. Having a current R8 I am not really leaning towards the Lambo anyway. Want something that doesn't have too many cars sharing its platform with. Slightly devalues that car for me. Ie the lambo will share components from the R8 and some from 911? Mclaren would be my choice a long way before the lambo.

Thank you again for taking the time out to explain to me what to look out for.


Sunny

My pleasure, Sunny.

Yes, I have heard that, ultimately, the Gallardo, R8 and a Porsche will share the same underpinnings. Although, the Porsche may be a new upcoming model between the 911 and 918? Not sure how true that is, as I suppose that car would be several years away at this point.

I might suggest talking to your McLaren dealer to see if you can get a tour of the HQ and factory in the UK. Many of us have had the opportunity to go and it is a phenomenal experience that will give you an understanding and appreciation for McLaren's history and what they have set out to accomplish over the next several years (see video below).

Let us know how else we can help.

 

[Jerry]

I might suggest talking to your McLaren dealer to see if you can get a tour of the HQ and factory in the UK. Many of us have had the opportunity to go and it is a phenomenal experience that will give you an understanding and appreciation for McLaren's history and what they have set out to accomplish over the next several years (see video below).

+1. One year later and my wife continues to talk about the experience ..... so it must be impressive

 

[dr.sb]

My pleasure, Sunny.

Yes, I have heard that, ultimately, the Gallardo, R8 and a Porsche will share the same underpinnings. Although, the Porsche may be a new upcoming model between the 911 and 918? Not sure how true that is, as I suppose that car would be several years away at this point.

I might suggest talking to your McLaren dealer to see if you can get a tour of the HQ and factory in the UK. Many of us have had the opportunity to go and it is a phenomenal experience that will give you an understanding and appreciation for McLaren's history and what they have set out to accomplish over the next several years (see video below).

Let us know how else we can help.

Thank you 6th element. Very useful information. Have the MP4 for a weekend to test it. Go past the factory regularly and will definitely look into having a tour, especially after the recent Maranello visit, this would be interesting.

Thanks for input.