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Discussion Starter #101
From my end, the car initially understeers at low speed but generates a tremendous amount of complex aero as the speed increases. Peter Ward sent me an email saying the MP4/22 produces 3,200 lbs of Dwnfrce at 160mph. I’ve only driven late 80’s indycars which certainly have dead zones of aero in the lower speed realms and our 85’ 962 in Le Mans configuration that is pretty well balanced aero wise from low to mid, IMO. The McL is a pretty marvelous piece of kit but with all that being said I have very limited time as my seat did not work out that I had poured at McLaren and we spent more ch of the day trying to get me comfortable. I’m almost 6’5” so I struggle in a lot of things. Oddly I fit a bit better in ways in our 89’ 640 f1 Ferrari but look like a giant. Our recent second test at amid-Ohio fed us a downpour and an ECU fault failure. That was a complete waste of time and money🤦‍♂️
Sorry to hear about the issues.. i sent you a facebook message also i beleive.. look forward to chatting...
 

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Lull was a funny thing. Bob Akin was watching from the outside pits at Atlanta as I slowly built speed though 1. He was the one that approached me after the session and asked why I stopped where I did on apex speed (Cosworth Spice at the time and Bob was running a customer in the same car). I explained that I got to my level of comfort with the car starting to loosen up and stopped there. He suggested that I come down the hill, accelerate to the speed I wanted to turn into one then carry that on the front straight until I turned in. I was to then increase that speed until I reached my level of comfort with grip.

What he knew, and I learned, was that the car was running out of mechanical grip at about 100 apex but the aero had not come in sufficiently to hold the car. By not accelerating on the straight and braking hard to turn into one I was not upsetting the chassis which let me get through the lull. The next session was 124 apex and my lap times started to come in.

With respect to where and when I ran cars-
All of this stuff is amateur land (Historic SportsCar Racing) where we run way to much downforce (because I am a chicken) and I pretty much never let the car move under me more than just a tad.

I got into to cars as bikes did not permit mistake based learning.
Leathers just keep the pieces in one place.

I also wanted to learn aero set up, engine build and overall running the cars at speed. Cosworth provided engines with rebuild manuals and parts along with all the software and cabling to run the original ECU. Lola provided parts, drawings of parts when parts were not available and all the set up and aero manuals to let people like me figure things out. I started off in two liters (Chevron B36) then the Spices (Cosworth and Chevy) then Indy/ChampCars. I ran the cars for about nine years then got into planes about ten years ago. All the car stuff is gone.
 

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Discussion Starter #104
Lull was a funny thing. Bob Akin was watching from the outside pits at Atlanta as I slowly built speed though 1. He was the one that approached me after the session and asked why I stopped where I did on apex speed (Cosworth Spice at the time and Bob was running a customer in the same car). I explained that I got to my level of comfort with the car starting to loosen up and stopped there. He suggested that I come down the hill, accelerate to the speed I wanted to turn into one then carry that on the front straight until I turned in. I was to then increase that speed until I reached my level of comfort with grip.

What he knew, and I learned, was that the car was running out of mechanical grip at about 100 apex but the aero had not come in sufficiently to hold the car. By not accelerating on the straight and braking hard to turn into one I was not upsetting the chassis which let me get through the lull. The next session was 124 apex and my lap times started to come in.

With respect to where and when I ran cars-
All of this stuff is amateur land (Historic SportsCar Racing) where we run way to much downforce (because I am a chicken) and I pretty much never let the car move under me more than just a tad.

I got into to cars as bikes did not permit mistake based learning.
Leathers just keep the pieces in one place.

I also wanted to learn aero set up, engine build and overall running the cars at speed. Cosworth provided engines with rebuild manuals and parts along with all the software and cabling to run the original ECU. Lola provided parts, drawings of parts when parts were not available and all the set up and aero manuals to let people like me figure things out. I started off in two liters (Chevron B36) then the Spices (Cosworth and Chevy) then Indy/ChampCars. I ran the cars for about nine years then got into planes about ten years ago. All the car stuff is gone.
interesting. Lull is definitely not something I have experiecned in any of the cars that I have driven. It’s difficult to think that I will get to a speed in the F1 where I would notice it. For the first time ever I took Eau rouge flat out recently and it seems downforce just builds in cars line LMP3.
 

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interesting. Lull is definitely not something I have experiecned in any of the cars that I have driven. It’s difficult to think that I will get to a speed in the F1 where I would notice it. For the first time ever I took Eau rouge flat out recently and it seems downforce just builds in cars line LMP3.
The inner car designer in me says aero has a finite limit at a determined speed. Thus what may be happening is that you are getting faster and experiencing improved downforce. But there is a chance I'm talking bollox.

I have always told you to gas it.
 

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Discussion Starter #107
Eau rouge flat :)!
Only driven Spa in a Chevron. Always wondered what it would be like in something with downforce and HP.
we have a surfeit of grip over power, but it’s odd pulling 6th as you leave the pit wall and just keep it pinned. Apex speed was about 245 kmh so just over 150mph? P2 were flat also. Think they were 265 ish Kmh.
 

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I know it’s been a while since you first got the car, but still, Congrats! Truly wow.

A few years back I was fortunate enough to sit next to Jeff Gordon from Newark to Phoenix. We got to talking about his ‘trading paint’ experience when he drove the Williams F1 car and Montoya drove his NASCAR at Indy.

Nonetheless, He was saying that the most impressive part of the experience was the braking envelope and the lateral G’s. In fact he said after 3-4 laps he’d have to come in because of the neck stress.

So I guess my question to you would be...despite your substantial experience, have you struggled at all with the lateral G’s and kneck stresses that Gordon referred to?

Again...Congrats! What an experience!!
 

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Discussion Starter #109
I know it’s been a while since you first got the car, but still, Congrats! Truly wow.

A few years back I was fortunate enough to sit next to Jeff Gordon from Newark to Phoenix. We got to talking about his ‘trading paint’ experience when he drove the Williams F1 car and Montoya drove his NASCAR at Indy.

Nonetheless, He was saying that the most impressive part of the experience was the braking envelope and the lateral G’s. In fact he said after 3-4 laps he’d have to come in because of the neck stress.

So I guess my question to you would be...despite your substantial experience, have you struggled at all with the lateral G’s and kneck stresses that Gordon referred to?

Again...Congrats! What an experience!!
thank you sir very kind... doesn't look like you've been here too long so thanks for the thoughts..

the whole thing is very impressive there's no doubt.. it rides better than an S class would you believe as well...

as regards the performance envelope... i haven't really taken the car close to its limits.. particuarly in lateral G.. i am somewhat aware that its 1) a decent piece of racing history and 2) i have an approximate idea how much various of the bits would cost to repair and i think, on balance, i'd most likely prefer to buy a new house ;-)

i have had full acceleration and close to full braking.. pulled just over 4g on the brakes, dropping from 270 kmh to 80 kmh in just less than 80m... but the discs were still only about 500 degrees c when they will operate at their best at north of 800... so a bit to come and i should get to around 5 g we think...

lateral will take longer if i ever get there.. i recently tested an LMP2 car (posted elsewhere) where i was able to explore bigger lateral loads even if i still didn't want to crash the thing... the neck does for sure get a bit tired, but in the LMP cars and indeed my own GP car we have bespoke seats which fit us perfectly which makes a big difference.. i also raced an LMP3 the last two years, so my neck is quite strong anyway, as we often pull close to 3g lateral in that, but the LMP2 is a big step up from that... so i think it's absolutely correct to say that if you went from a road car to an LMP car straight, let alone to a grand prix and tried to pull the theoretical G it could, your neck would give up in less than a lap no question... but with the correct seat and so forth and a good deal of training you would get used to it, even if it would still invovle huge effort... it amazes me when you see the guys finish a grand prix and get out as if they've just been to the shops... the load on their body is absolutley huge, particularly in this modern age..
 
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