MP4-12C vs LF-A

2420 Views 13 Replies 9 Participants Last post by cornflakes, Mar 24, 2012

Kingfrog3

Discussion Starter · Mar 22, 2012

I had the good fortune of being able to test drive the 12C, 458, and LF-A back to back the other day. The 12C killed the competition and the expericance made me even more eager to get my hands on mine (coming in June!!

) but the LF-A was a real surprise. The car drove fantastic and the fit and finish is on a Rolls Royce level. If money was not object I could definitely see owning both cars; completely different experiences but both very entertaining in their own way. Was wondering if any other 12C owners tested the LF-A and their thoughts on the car?
thanks

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dennis

· #2 · Mar 22, 2012

Kingfrog3 said:
I had the good fortune of being able to test drive the 12C, 458, and LF-A back to back the other day. The 12C killed the competition and the expericance made me even more eager to get my hands on mine (coming in June!!) but the LF-A was a real surprise. The car drove fantastic and the fit and finish is on a Rolls Royce level. If money was not object I could definitely see owning both cars; completely different experiences but both very entertaining in their own way. Was wondering if any other 12C owners tested the LF-A and their thoughts on the car?
thanks

I got to drive the LF-A for two laps around Infineon Raceway last year. It was impressive and made the R8 V8 I had rented for the weekend feel really slow. But I never considered buying it, partly because of the price, but mostly because it is 10 year old technology. The gearbox is the same one used in the Carrera GT, the V10 engine was designed back when F1 ran V10's etc. The 12C is a much more modern car technology-wise, IMHO. And faster, judging by the top speed going into Turns 1 and 7 at Infineon (me) vs. Turn 2 at Laguna Seca (HyperMac).

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6th element

· #3 · Mar 22, 2012

Missed my opportunity to drive the LF-A, but wish I had. I was initially very ho-hum on the car, based on it being so late to market, but the more I see of it, the more I like it. I think it looks really great (also love the wheels, rear spoiler and the interior), it has a carbon chassis and that motor seems to be something quite special, indeed.

dennis - doesn't it have a paddle-shifted automatic sequential box, whereas the CGT has a 6 speed manual?

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dennis

· #4 · Mar 22, 2012

6th element said:
dennis - doesn't it have a paddle-shifted automatic sequential box, whereas the CGT has a 6 speed manual?

You are correct - LFA is a single clutch six speed SMG, similar to (but not the same as) BMW E60 M5. Carrera GT only came with manual 6 speed. I'm trying to remember who gave me the [mis]information, as I know I remember discussing it at the LF-A event...

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Kingfrog3

Discussion Starter · #5 · Mar 22, 2012

Choose

dennis said:
You are correct - LFA is a single clutch six speed SMG, similar to (but not the same as) BMW E60 M5. Carrera GT only came with manual 6 speed. I'm trying to remember who gave me the [mis]information, as I know I remember discussing it at the LF-A event...

Dennis,
If you had to choose between Carrera GT and the LFA, which would it be and why?

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dennis

· #6 · Mar 22, 2012

Kingfrog3 said:
Dennis,
If you had to choose between Carrera GT and the LFA, which would it be and why?

I've never had a chance to drive a Carrera GT. To be perfectly honest, I wasn't even in the market for an exotic until I started reading about the 12C several years ago. The more I read about the technology and Ron's vision, the more interested I became. After test driving the 12C I knew I had to have one. I never considered buying anything else.

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Krzys

· #7 · Mar 22, 2012

Kingfrog3 said:
I had the good fortune of being able to test drive the 12C, 458, and LF-A back to back the other day. The 12C killed the competition and the expericance made me even more eager to get my hands on mine (coming in June!!) but the LF-A was a real surprise. The car drove fantastic and the fit and finish is on a Rolls Royce level. If money was not object I could definitely see owning both cars; completely different experiences but both very entertaining in their own way. Was wondering if any other 12C owners tested the LF-A and their thoughts on the car?
thanks

I completely agree. LF-A is a great car. I drove it at Monticello and on some backroads here in CT, and the car is hugely impressive. Great turn-in, fantastic sound and engine and really crappy gear-box. I was tempted for a bit, but at twice the price of the competition, it made no sense. I asked Lexus if they would just lease the car to me, but they were very eager to sell it, which tells you all you need to know about the value proposition down the road.

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choatie88

· #8 · Mar 23, 2012

Kingfrog3 said:
Dennis,
If you had to choose between Carrera GT and the LFA, which would it be and why?

I haven't driven the LFA, but I have driven the Carrera GT on track, and I must say it's hard to imagine anything being better than it. I'll report again when I finally get my 12C. However, the Carrera GT is notably the last of the manual box hypercars so I really think the question is whether it or the F1 is the greatest manual box car ever made.

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Osiris_x11

· #9 · Mar 23, 2012

A slightly damaged LFA available: http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/2012...0845801?pt=US_Cars_Trucks&hash=item35ba6b11e9

dennis said:
... but mostly because it is 10 year old technology. The 12C is a much more modern car technology-wise, IMHO...

The LFA's carbon/composite fabrication is superior to the likes of the Veyron, CC_/Agera, Zonda/Hyaura, Aventador, and even MP4-12C. The in-house loom rivals Airbus, Boeing, and Aero-Space/Defense technologies.

In principal, there's nothing "new" on the MP4-12C (hydraulic suspension, air-brake/brake-steer, pre-cog, carbon monocoque, etc. have been around for decades), but McLaren made all of these hallmarks remarkably synergistic.

Krzys said:
I was tempted for a bit, but at twice the price of the competition, it made no sense. I asked Lexus if they would just lease the car to me, but they were very eager to sell it...

The market niche` for the LFA seems to be the 599GTB, DB-S, and other front-engine V12 ~$300k+ luxo' GT platforms, instead of the ~$200k+ (rear) mid-engine V8 realm of 458's, Gallardo's, R8's, MP4-12C's, 911 GT2's/Turbo-S's, etc.

BTW, it was understood that all LFA's were to be leased thru Lexus for 24-months, then the leaser was granted the option to outright purchase the LFA. There were no exceptions to this acquisition process. This heavy'handed approach by Lexus was to remove flippers & eliminate market-adjustment-value from the LFA purchase process.

FWIW, I really even don't care for the LFA (exterior styling is a bit, odd; performance is a bit, underwhelming; front mid-engine vs. rear mid-engine) but I believe it to be a technical Tour de Force w/ regards to fabrication/construction (incredible CF/composite prowess that'll trickle down to their more ubiquitous offerings thru economies of scale) & an unrivaled engine note (by far, the best sounding current engine short of an F1 power-plant).

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Krzys

· #10 · Mar 23, 2012

Osiris_x11 said:
A slightly damaged LFA available: http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/2012...0845801?pt=US_Cars_Trucks&hash=item35ba6b11e9

The LFA's carbon/composite fabrication is superior to the likes of the Veyron, CC_/Agera, Zonda/Hyaura, Aventador, and even MP4-12C. The in-house loom rivals Airbus, Boeing, and Aero-Space/Defense technologies.

In principal, there's nothing "new" on the MP4-12C (hydraulic suspension, air-brake/brake-steer, pre-cog, carbon monocoque, etc. have been around for decades), but McLaren made all of these hallmarks remarkably synergistic.

The market niche` for the LFA seems to be the 599GTB, DB-S, and other front-engine V12 ~$300k+ luxo' GT platforms, instead of the ~$200k+ (rear) mid-engine V8 realm of 458's, Gallardo's, R8's, MP4-12C's, 911 GT2's/Turbo-S's, etc.

BTW, it was understood that all LFA's were to be leased thru Lexus for 24-months, then the leaser was granted the option to outright purchase the LFA. There were no exceptions to this acquisition process. This heavy'handed approach by Lexus was to remove flippers & eliminate market-adjustment-value from the LFA purchase process.

FWIW, I really even don't care for the LFA (exterior styling is a bit, odd; performance is a bit, underwhelming; front mid-engine vs. rear mid-engine) but I believe it to be a technical Tour de Force w/ regards to fabrication/construction (incredible CF/composite prowess that'll trickle down to their more ubiquitous offerings thru economies of scale) & an unrivaled engine note (by far, the best sounding current engine short of an F1 power-plant).

Let me assure you that there was no lease program in operation, after all. I was told explicitly in fall 2010 that they changed their approach.

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cornflakes

· #11 · Mar 23, 2012

Osiris_x11 said:
A slightly damaged LFA available: http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/2012...0845801?pt=US_Cars_Trucks&hash=item35ba6b11e9

The LFA's carbon/composite fabrication is superior to the likes of the Veyron, CC_/Agera, Zonda/Hyaura, Aventador, and even MP4-12C. The in-house loom rivals Airbus, Boeing, and Aero-Space/Defense technologies.

In principal, there's nothing "new" on the MP4-12C (hydraulic suspension, air-brake/brake-steer, pre-cog, carbon monocoque, etc. have been around for decades), but McLaren made all of these hallmarks remarkably synergistic.

The market niche` for the LFA seems to be the 599GTB, DB-S, and other front-engine V12 ~$300k+ luxo' GT platforms, instead of the ~$200k+ (rear) mid-engine V8 realm of 458's, Gallardo's, R8's, MP4-12C's, 911 GT2's/Turbo-S's, etc.

BTW, it was understood that all LFA's were to be leased thru Lexus for 24-months, then the leaser was granted the option to outright purchase the LFA. There were no exceptions to this acquisition process. This heavy'handed approach by Lexus was to remove flippers & eliminate market-adjustment-value from the LFA purchase process.

FWIW, I really even don't care for the LFA (exterior styling is a bit, odd; performance is a bit, underwhelming; front mid-engine vs. rear mid-engine) but I believe it to be a technical Tour de Force w/ regards to fabrication/construction (incredible CF/composite prowess that'll trickle down to their more ubiquitous offerings thru economies of scale) & an unrivaled engine note (by far, the best sounding current engine short of an F1 power-plant).

@ Osiris_x11

Don't mean to be pedantic but I think your a little off in your praise of the LFA and it's "superior" Carbon/composite Fabrication, the loom was only used for the A-pillar the rest is the usual hand layered carbon techniques, and McLaren/Mercedes got there first, they used the same method for the nose-cone crash structure on the SLR project.
While your right about hydraulic suspension, carbon monocoque etc.. not being new the way in which McLaren makes the Monocell is new and is an incredible bit of engineering a one piece RTM carbon Tub with hollow sections that takes just 4 hours to make!

And has for the sound I personal think the Carrera GT, Ferrari 599 GTO, McLaren F1, BMW E46 M3 CSL make a better sound, but thats just opinion

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falb

· #12 · Mar 24, 2012

LFA is underwhelming and looks like a Lexus, which is not a complement.

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andy c

· #13 · Mar 24, 2012

cornflakes said:
@ Osiris_x11

Don't mean to be pedantic but I think your a little off in your praise of the LFA and it's "superior" Carbon/composite Fabrication, the loom was only used for the A-pillar the rest is the usual hand layered carbon techniques, and McLaren/Mercedes got there first, they used the same method for the nose-cone crash structure on the SLR project.
While your right about hydraulic suspension, carbon monocoque etc.. not being new the way in which McLaren makes the Monocell is new and is an incredible bit of engineering a one piece RTM carbon Tub with hollow sections that takes just 4 hours to make!

And has for the sound I personal think the Carrera GT, Ferrari 599 GTO, McLaren F1, BMW E46 M3 CSL make a better sound, but thats just opinion

As regards the carbon tub,have you seen the 918 tub,very similar to the 12c,but with a rollover bar incorparated into the rear and A pillars,i think its also by the same supplier,but isnt the same process as it weighs 220 kg against 80 kg,seems quite a backward step and will make the power to weight no where near the f70 and new f1,but the electical side seems very advanced.As regards the outright performance they are claiming the same stats as the 12c at £675k plus options it will not be in the same league ,but it is very striking

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cornflakes

· #14 · Mar 24, 2012

The performance stats on the 918 look underwhelming but from a technical/aesthetics point of view it looks very interesting, I love where the supercar makers are going push the boundaries next as they can't simply up the cylinder/turbo count, Porsche engineers have reportedly stated to Autocar that the 918 will weight 1700kg (curb I hope) that seems a bit heavy for a car with 94mpg.

Does anyone know who owns the patent rights to the Monocell production method Carbotech? McLaren? will be interesting to know how Porsche produce the chassis with A-pillar in one piece, assuming it is one piece. McLaren use Boron steel for the A-Pillar on the 12c maybe it will be a one piece design for the P12?
McLaren & Ferrari are playing the Formula One Sercets game with regard to releasing info on their next projects, unlike Porsche!

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