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Discussion Starter #1
It's time to start seeing the true horsepower potential of the 12c. I think it will be about 750 hp or 650hp to the wheels on stock turbos. How many owners plan to modify and are there any performance shops in UK doing work on these yet? I am sure USA shops can't wait to get their hands on a car to start the tuning process. IMO the 12c will be the best starting point for high horsepower builds in the near future!
 

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It's time to start seeing the true horsepower potential of the 12c. I think it will be about 750 hp or 650hp to the wheels on stock turbos. How many owners plan to modify and are there any performance shops in UK doing work on these yet? I am sure USA shops can't wait to get their hands on a car to start the tuning process. IMO the 12c will be the best starting point for high horsepower builds in the near future!
Im sure there are loads wanting to do it,ive modified all my porsches,but i dont think im going to bother here as the car is so sorted and i dont want to upset the dynamics,im sure there is plenty more power but im past the stage of wanting more in a straight line.And to be honest you get there so quick in this you have to ajust your driving and if you get more power without it being linked to the balance ,you might just spoil it,and possibly make it slower from A to B imop'
+ at this price level im not wealthy enough to risk my warrenty
 

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I project that the turbos are not designed to flow significantly more air on the top end. Even if you put new wheels in it would simply shift the power band up and sacrifice low end. With 440lb/ft starting in low I would assume that the torque curve is absolutely flat and controlled with boost pressure. Allowing more boost through the mid to upper range will yield good results but make the car feel like the power drops off on the top end. However I really don't know what I am talking about.

I am fairly confident I won't be the first one to mod a 12C.
 

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I project that the turbos are not designed to flow significantly more air on the top end. Even if you put new wheels in it would simply shift the power band up and sacrifice low end. With 440lb/ft starting in low I would assume that the torque curve is absolutely flat and controlled with boost pressure. Allowing more boost through the mid to upper range will yield good results but make the car feel like the power drops off on the top end. However I really don't know what I am talking about.

I am fairly confident I won't be the first one to mod a 12C.
Will be interested in the outcome,might be worth a flight over ??
 

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It would be interesting to see what the engine produces without the turbos. A 3.8L engine in a Porsche(I know a totally different engine not apples to apples) will produce around 400 HP. I would think that if the McLaren were in the same ball park, 600 HP is probably close to the usable top. I'm sure that different programming could probably squeeze another 25 or so ponies but having driven this car, I'm nit sure what more you could want or even take advantage of unless you were on a track.
 

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It would be interesting to see what the engine produces without the turbos. A 3.8L engine in a Porsche(I know a totally different engine not apples to apples) will produce around 400 HP. I would think that if the McLaren were in the same ball park, 600 HP is probably close to the usable top. I'm sure that different programming could probably squeeze another 25 or so ponies but having driven this car, I'm nit sure what more you could want or even take advantage of unless you were on a track.
dont forget porsche is only a 6 mclaren is a V8

with the low emmisions it is putting out there is plenty of power left with taking off the cats and doing a ECU upgrade and cranking up the boost.

I for one will give it a try.
 

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Discussion Starter #7
The techs at mclaren told me that the stock turbos have a lot more boost available and that the car has a very conservative tune. He also told me some prototype cars with same engine and turbos put out 700hp. Car has lots of potential.
 

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The techs at mclaren told me that the stock turbos have a lot more boost available and that the car has a very conservative tune. He also told me some prototype cars with same engine and turbos put out 700hp. Car has lots of potential.
Dont forget they detuned the engine for longevity on the road,it was running at 10500rpm regulary on the test beds,not so sure about in the XP cars,but im sure they did.
I was talking to one of the test drivers at Mclaren Manchester on thursday.
He was one of the guys who put 1000,s of miles on the xp cars,he said he had never had a car that he had given so much abuse to the engine,at constant race car speeds without it letting them down, as well as the drivetrain.
Also you have to have won some sort of a championship before you get to work there,and if you stuff a car,you have to have a very good reason as its instant dismissal.
Jason Plato need not apply;)
 

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I was talking to one of the test drivers at Mclaren Manchester on thursday.
He was one of the guys who put 1000,s of miles on the xp cars,he said he had never had a car that he had given so much abuse to the engine,at constant race car speeds without it letting them down, as well as the drivetrain.
Also you have to have won some sort of a championship before you get to work there,and if you stuff a car,you have to have a very good reason as its instant dismissal.
;)
Andy, are you saying my ambition for a part time driving job in RonsWorld is slim?

I did win an Alps Rally last night on GT3 (in a Works Turbo Cooper ) and it was snowing!
 

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Blimey what a talent - tell us more please :D:cool:

Chris has been the main man here as best driver but should you enter the fray Roundincircles:confused:
 

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Blimey what a talent - tell us more please :D:cool:

Chris has been the main man here as best driver but should you enter the fray Roundincircles:confused:
Well im out,crashed twice on the Mclaren F1 sim at Manchester on thursday,too much of a shortarse ,my feet were level with my shoulders in that cockpit,i could hardly see over the steering wheel.
I wont be beat,im taking a cushion next time!!!!
By the way its very realistic how the load builds up in the steering wheel and kicks back at you,never done it before,im sure its far more advanced than an arcade game:rolleyes:
 

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The one thing I've failed to do on GT3 is get the discs red hot, I'm sure there is a setting but only 18 year olds can find! So Chris is still the Man, I think.

But I will hone my skills over Christmas.
 

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dont forget porsche is only a 6 mclaren is a V8

with the low emmisions it is putting out there is plenty of power left with taking off the cats and doing a ECU upgrade and cranking up the boost.

I for one will give it a try.
Well I can't wait to here about it. When do you expect your car?
 

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Well im out,crashed twice on the Mclaren F1 sim at Manchester on thursday,too much of a shortarse ,my feet were level with my shoulders in that cockpit,i could hardly see over the steering wheel.
:
My eight year old nephew who had a go in the sim at Birmingham last week was actually lying on the floor:D

Never did get to the end of the lap, although his ten year old brother did manage to roll the car very spectacularly.
 

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cant believe you are talking about upgrades ive been in the car for a 2 mile trip and its the quickest most stable and usable car ive ever been in. I was smiling all day its awesome, the car has the perfect balance of power and traction and your only running 1.2 bar and the torque curve is near perfect 600nm from 2000-7000rpm. You can tell there is a slight delay till your on full boost but you don't lack in power you just go into warp speed. If McLaren wanted pure power they may have used a 5ltr v8 maybe like the koenigsegg and 1000hp.
Look at the noble with its Volvo 4.4 V8 its got the legs once you get past 150mph but in the real world its all over by then, 0-150 mph is key.
 

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Discussion Starter #17
cant believe you are talking about upgrades ive been in the car for a 2 mile trip and its the quickest most stable and usable car ive ever been in. I was smiling all day its awesome, the car has the perfect balance of power and traction and your only running 1.2 bar and the torque curve is near perfect 600nm from 2000-7000rpm. You can tell there is a slight delay till your on full boost but you don't lack in power you just go into warp speed. If McLaren wanted pure power they may have used a 5ltr v8 maybe like the koenigsegg and 1000hp.
Look at the noble with its Volvo 4.4 V8 its got the legs once you get past 150mph but in the real world its all over by then, 0-150 mph is key.
It's all relative to what you are used to driving. A proper tune will give it more power and still retain the drivability it has when stock. Should have come with 650 hp stock and they would have sold more cars but I am sure there will be a higher hp version in the near future 1-2 years. The car is capable of handling the power (chassis, engine ect).
 

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A proper tune will give it more power and still retain the drivability it has when stock.
I am very skeptical about this. Boosting an engine's power without adjusting absolutely everything accordingly usually results in a car that's not homogenous anymore. I am sure the base of the 12-c can take much more power but a sportscar is not just a dragster, and it is not as simple as raising the pressure of the waste gate. That's why most tuners eventually end up catering for customers who are more interested in the impression they make on people than in really driving their car at the limit.
 

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I am very skeptical about this. Boosting an engine's power without adjusting absolutely everything accordingly usually results in a car that's not homogenous anymore. I am sure the base of the 12-c can take much more power but a sportscar is not just a dragster, and it is not as simple as raising the pressure of the waste gate. That's why most tuners eventually end up catering for customers who are more interested in the impression they make on people than in really driving their car at the limit.
+1
The chipped Porsche Turbos I have driven have not impressed me. Maybe I'm driving the wrong cars, but some well known tuners this side of the pond. Great top end but lacking in drivability throughout the rev range. You notice it on the short straights between corners. Even the Gumpert Apollo was far too laggy for my taste.

From what I understand, Goodwin et al spent many hours tuning the drivability of the M838T. As I said following my first test drive, the power delivery is stupendous for a turbo motor and will garner this engine legendary status before all is said and done. If the tune comes from McLaren, I'd be apt to trust it. But I'm not in a hurry to let an aftermarket shop have a go.
 

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not same experience here.. It all depends on what and with whom you ve done it. Manufacturers leave a lot on the table for future models etc (along with reliability/ longevity). Have seen what it takes to improve all aspects of a turbocharged engine - including power band, torque/power, lag- and its possible but difficult. Then one has to think about the peripherals (transmission, gearbox etc). This is a big unknown for the MP4 beyond 700nm.

I spent a lot of time with the mclaren engineers having this discussion and there is potential for another 10-15% power on standard internals. Also the lag in the car is not that great (i.e. there is still noticeable lag) and that could possibly be improved. But you ll need experienced engineers for that..
 
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