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Discussion Starter #1
Hi all,

I work for a Lithium Battery company. We do Automotive, Motorcycle/Powersports Batteries, involved in a lot of racing etc...

Though we already make a Lithium-Ion Automotive Battery for Sport Cars, we are looking to obtain some additional info to make a replacement specifically for McLarens. I'm posting this here first in the MP4 forum since these cars are the oldest and have the most likelihood of having replaced the batteries.

We are looking to build a replacement Starter Battery for the McLarens. This is a newer project so we are just gearing up but we are already are moving forward because we have the cell packs and BMS already in place, but need certain information from the Communication Port on the A123/McLaren Battery... no I don't expect you guys to know those protocols.

We know all the background on the McLaren Batteries being that we know A123 Systems did the 1st and 2nd Gens of the Batteries, and they are different. Obviously the 2nd Gen is more of what we are looking for data on and our main focal point is getting a better understanding the protocol of communication between the Car and A123 battery itself to not raise the flags when a new battery is put in.

We have been trying to touch base with A123 already, but they are notoriously hard to communicate with as we know from past work with them. The battery pack, BMS, and design itself is not the issue, we already do that and have what we feel is a better BMS anyway, but we are trying to better understand the exact communication between the Battery and the Car that is required to not get any flags. We will eventually purchase the battery if necessary, but for initial information gathering I figured approach those who actually have had the car.

So moving forward I have a few questions.

1- Does anyone have a used or damaged original McLaren A123Systems Battery they would like to part with or sell to us? In return we would either buy it , get you the new one after we come out with it, or get you one that we currently make that you can use in any other car you might have... Porsche, Lambo, Viper, Vette whatever, our battery works in it. The only car it really won't work for now is the McLaren due to the communication port. On this new battery we are developing we would like to incorporate that port and create a battery that works with the MaClarens at a reasonable price point...because $3000 for a battery is honestly ridiculous.... and we know this since we manufacture them.

2- We also know the Mercedes GTR uses the A123 Battery... so we are fairly certain the protocol the battery puts out is standardized, but again we would want to verify this by checking. So again we would be looking to buy this battery if we cannot find it.

3- Last if by chance there is anybody from McLaren that may come on here it might be cool to have some input, and we will also be reaching out to McLaren, but I see that as proprietary information they might not want to discuss since they seem like they do not really want aftermarket parts in the car.

4-IF we can't find a used or dead one then we will buy one, so has anyone found a decent resource aside from the McLaren Dealer?

Anyway any assistance in much appreciated. I want to make clear also that I am not trying to sell anything on here because we do not have a product that works with McLarens yet, this is an early attempt to see if we can obtain some insight and secure a used or damaged Battery from someone to repair hopefully and do some testing on the communication port.
 

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I have exactly what you are looking for! Please PM me your contact details
 

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Did anything ever come of this?
 

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No Sir, The best solution if you need a battery is contact @XPRD and buy a second gen lithium-ion battery. The installation is simple, You can just use the orange wire on the little batt monitoring plug connected to the one orange wire on the new battery. (there are 3 wires total, the other two brown wires are unused/disconnected when using a 2nd gen battery)

198140
 

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Discussion Starter #6
Hi all,

We put this on the back burner for a bit as we developed some new product.... anyway we are looking for a few to test a battery option for the McLarens.

The issues is the current Lithium Battery for McLarens use a Canbus plug to get the batteries information. But we have been told that a work around it so use the Lead/Acid Battery setting in the Car if you ever need to run a Lead/Acid Battery. So our particular Lithium battery is a direct replacement for Lead/Acid batteries and works well as a direct replacement. So our theory is that a McLaren could therefor use another lithium battery if you set the Cars Battery setting to Lead/Acid.

So why I'm writing about this is because I would like to test the accuracy of what we have read and heard about, because the Lithium Battery we manufacture would then work perfectly fine with the Car in its Lead/Acid Setting since our battery is set up as a direct replacement for Lead/Acid anyway.

Yes we are very familiar with what the McLarens use as their Lithium Battery... meaning we know its and A123 Systems Battery and has a Canbus interface to report its status. But if the work around is just setting the Car to Lead/Acid and using our Lithium Battery then you can save over $2000 dollars and have a better battery. And by better Battery I mean a better battery that actually has Wireless built-in Jump STarting so you CAN'T get stranded or stuck with an over-discharged battery.... which is a big winner.

So are any of you interested in testing something like this. We would prefer you are local (Los Angeles), but we are open to those outside Los Angeles also. We also would need you to have a way to reset the cars computer to the Lead/Acid setting or have a dealer willing to do this. We can also assume they Dealer would tell you it won't work, but that would be inaccurate being if there is a setting for Lead then our Lithium should work asd it does in the Porsche and other Cars we sell to. But that why we want to test. This could create a great benefit to those not wanting to be having to spend $3k on a Battery.
 

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So to be clear...you can't figure out how to reverse engineer the McLaren battery for less than what they sell it for, so you want somebody to pony up their 12C for you to use as your test bed? And to use their car to see if your Lithium battery will work after the ECU is switched to lead/acid? Can't imagine anyone would willingly do this.
 

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Discussion Starter #8
So to be clear...you can't figure out how to reverse engineer the McLaren battery for less than what they sell it for, so you want somebody to pony up their 12C for you to use as your test bed? And to use their car to see if your Lithium battery will work after the ECU is switched to lead/acid? Can't imagine anyone would willingly do this.
Wow, that an interestingly terse response, and to be clear... you are quite a bit off base and I don't think understand how the aftermarket industry works.

1- We are not trying to reverse engineer the A123 McLaren Battery, that would make the battery more expensive and our whole point at this time is to offer a less expensive but BETTER option. Our battery is flat out better than the A123 McLaren Battery being it offers WIRELESS BUILT-IN JUMP STARTING. That means even if you drain the battery you can still start the car without charging the battery, without having to acces the battery, nor would you be left stranded or needing assistance since our battery CAN'T be drained dead since it has a reserve. All you do is press the Wireless Keyfob we provide, then it wakes the battery and starts the car with its reserve, and you drive away.... Yep, we built a better mousetrap.

2- We've been doing this over the last 10 years, we have had testers for Aventadors, Huracans, 488s, GT3s , GT2s and tons of other Cars, this is just part of the process, we check to make sure of no flags or odd charging profiles in certain cars since each manufacturer is slightly different, but regardless they all operate in the same manner within the same voltage range. The battery can't harm their car, which is what I guess you don't understand, 13v DC will not harm your car be it lithium or lead, we are just trying to figure if the lead/acid setting is really there for all the McLarens, and then we want to see about using that setting for our Lithium since then you can bypass needing the Canbus plugged in which could also eliminate some funky prompts and actions that occur from the Canbus data in some cars.

3- Additionally our Testers get the batteries for large discounts or FREE if they choose to use them after testing. The testing is as simple as just driving the car and telling us if any flags come up. As I said it can't "hurt" the Car in anyway, is there a potential for a Flag... maybe... but it not the case most time but that is why we test.

So I personally don't understand your seemingly negative take on this..but I KNOW there will be others who do not think remotely like you do, we done this literally hundreds of times already with exceptional results. We are just looking at the potential to offer an option that is $2k less costly than the battery McLaren offers now. Yet here you are seemingly pooping on my asking people to participate. Don't worry Indy, you don't have to choose this route, nobody is forcing you and I am not selling Snake Oil.... we are already arguably the top Lithium Ion Battery company is the USA, we are just looking to assist some McLaren owners with a battery option that is at a more reasonable price point and overall a better battery.
 

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So if I'm willing to pay my McLaren dealer out of my own pocket to change my battery setting to "Lead Acid" and then share my findings with you, then I get the battery for free? Correct? If so I'm in!

Send me a PM and let's beta test your battery solution!

FWIW - I have a fair bit of experience already using a real lead acid battery in a McLaren. The only difference was at the time, I had no Idea the "Lead Acid" setting was configurable in the cars ECU.


You can read all about my real life experience 3 years ago in the post below.



Cheers!
 

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Wow, that an interestingly terse response, and to be clear... you are quite a bit off base and I don't think understand how the aftermarket industry works.
I'm simply pointing out that it seems like you're asking for a lot here. I'd assume a battery that is being tested in my car could possibly fry my wiring and electronics, but I willingly admit I could be wrong (and probably am).

You're 100% right, I know very little about how the aftermarket industry works. It's hard for anyone to figure out what risk they are taking on without knowing the name of your company. I did take the time to peruse your previous posts to see if you had mentioned the company you work for there, and didn't see it. Either way, buy that 720S you were looking at in October! Win-win as you'll get an amazing car as-well-as a rolling proof-point if you do get the battery rolled out.

And looks like I was wrong, you already have a possible taker!
 

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Discussion Starter #11
So if I'm willing to pay my McLaren dealer out of my own pocket to change my battery setting to "Lead Acid" and then share my findings with you, then I get the battery for free? Correct? If so I'm in!

Send me a PM and let's beta test your battery solution!

FWIW - I have a fair bit of experience already using a real lead acid battery in a McLaren. The only difference was at the time, I had no Idea the "Lead Acid" setting was configurable in the cars ECU.


You can read all about my real life experience 3 years ago in the post below.



Cheers!
Hi Ima,

We are not even asking you to pay for the setting change at McLaren, we would be willing to pay that cost for the Lead/Acid Setting change, assuming they are not being ridiculous. We are just looking for someone who is interested in testing and is familiar enough with Cars to change out batteries and provide some data. We've already done this several times. I sent you a PM.

We are assuming the McLaren has the similar set up as the Porsche PIWIS system where you can change to Lead or Lithium and adjust the Amp Hours and such for the battery. That system type is basically in every Car, just different versions. But we'll chat and I'll get you the details.
 

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Discussion Starter #12
I'm simply pointing out that it seems like you're asking for a lot here. I'd assume a battery that is being tested in my car could possibly fry my wiring and electronics, but I willingly admit I could be wrong (and probably am).

You're 100% right, I know very little about how the aftermarket industry works. It's hard for anyone to figure out what risk they are taking on without knowing the name of your company. I did take the time to peruse your previous posts to see if you had mentioned the company you work for there, and didn't see it. Either way, buy that 720S you were looking at in October! Win-win as you'll get an amazing car as-well-as a rolling proof-point if you do get the battery rolled out.

And looks like I was wrong, you already have a possible taker!
I can understand your concern, you don't know who we are and might think I'm someone fishing for a con...

I don't mention my company ( Antigravity Batteries) because I am not a Vendor yet and want to try to respect the forum and not come across as promoting my company. My intention is to find a solution THEN be a Vendor and promote what we do, and offer a solution. If you or anyone wants to check out more how we relate to a forum/community.... we are pretty big in the Porsche Community and very active on the Rennlist forum for Porsche.... you can search our name, and learn a tremendous amount about Lithium in general but also about how our products work, and what people think of us. Or do an internet search.

And last personally, I find the 720s to be the ultimate Car, I freaking love them, I have a GT3RS, but drool over he 720s.... but I did not pull the trigger because I saw the McLaren business model to really not support the value of the Cars since they churn out the next best thing so quick, so they depreciate in a beyond reasonable manner for my resources personally. So I held off. But now they are about $100k less expensive which now puts it in my my mind again as an option.
 

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Truth, go hit up Tavarish on YT. He's doing a 675LT re-build and has made noise about the cost of these Lithium batteries.

Im sure you both can work out a win-win deal...


I can understand your concern, you don't know who we are and might think I'm someone fishing for a con...

I don't mention my company ( Antigravity Batteries) because I am not a Vendor yet and want to try to respect the forum and not come across as promoting my company. My intention is to find a solution THEN be a Vendor and promote what we do, and offer a solution. If you or anyone wants to check out more how we relate to a forum/community.... we are pretty big in the Porsche Community and very active on the Rennlist forum for Porsche.... you can search our name, and learn a tremendous amount about Lithium in general but also about how our products work, and what people think of us. Or do an internet search.

And last personally, I find the 720s to be the ultimate Car, I freaking love them, I have a GT3RS, but drool over he 720s.... but I did not pull the trigger because I saw the McLaren business model to really not support the value of the Cars since they churn out the next best thing so quick, so they depreciate in a beyond reasonable manner for my resources personally. So I held off. But now they are about $100k less expensive which now puts it in my my mind again as an option.
 

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@maxhubris, Great suggestion but @Truth and I are currently working together on this and I have promised a full writeup in my typical style to detail the outcome.

I'm actually very excited about the project. I'm confident my nearly 4 year history here on McLarenLife will carry value as not only am I an owner of multiple McLarens (six diffrent 12c's), but I am also a professional mechanic who has been repairing and modifing sports & exotics for nearly 35 years.

Stand by for the results soon!
 

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Not one to be a wedge in one's business/arrangement but I think the more diverse beta testers the better especially on two different platforms....

@maxhubris, Great suggestion but @Truth and I are currently working together on this and I have promised a full writeup in my typical style to detail the outcome.

I'm actually very excited about the project. I'm confident my nearly 4 year history here on McLarenLife will carry value as not only am I an owner of multiple McLarens (six diffrent 12c's), but I am also a professional mechanic who has been repairing and modifing sports & exotics for nearly 35 years.

Stand by for the results soon!
 

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Discussion Starter #16
Not one to be a wedge in one's business/arrangement but I think the more diverse beta testers the better especially on two different platforms....
We are stoked to get started with Ima2ner, and others who might be willing to participate. The bigger the pool of testing the more information we can get. I personally think the 12cs are going to be hopefully a slam dunk being they for sure have a Lead/Acid Setting... but this is what we do, test to make sure. But I'll have one of my staff reach out to Tarvish also, and see where he is at with his. He will have the later varient of the battery but that would be great to find a work around for those being I think it would apply to all the later model Macs.

The whole point is to have some solution because the prices for the A123 Systems model is seriously way to high, and the fact that they have a full BMS and are sometimes not getting a bare minimum of 5 years is pretty silly being that the main selling point A123 expresses in their literature is that the lithium battery lasts much longer than lead/acid, and is therefore more cost effective.... and as should be the case. Yet we have heard stories of them going bad in 2 years, and that is not acceptable for a $2-3k Battery.

Anyway really stoked to get rolling on this, we'll see how it goes.
 

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GL to all involved. Ill be waiting for feedback & results.
My Interstate lead acid battery installed a month ago in my 12-C continues working great and testing perfectly
Have not had it on trickle charger but drive car every 3 days
One dealer quoted me $350 to reprogram from lithium to lead acid
My regular dealer re programed setting for free
Also...
The male cigarette lighter type plug of my Battery Tender does not make a good connection into the OEM female receptical near the hood latch mechanism so my mechanic removed the carpeting /etc and wired the regular wire in
He said he never can get a cigarette lighter plug to make a good connection in a McLaren
Again, my dealer says only 12-C, 650 S ,and 675 can be reprogrammed for lead acid
 

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GL to all involved. Ill be waiting for feedback & results.
My Interstate lead acid battery installed a month ago in my 12-C continues working great and testing perfectly
Have not had it on trickle charger but drive car every 3 days
One dealer quoted me $350 to reprogram from lithium to lead acid
My regular dealer re programed setting for free
Also...
The male cigarette lighter type plug of my Battery Tender does not make a good connection into the OEM female receptical near the hood latch mechanism so my mechanic removed the carpeting /etc and wired the regular wire in
He said he never can get a cigarette lighter plug to make a good connection in a McLaren
Again, my dealer says only 12-C, 650 S ,and 675 can be reprogrammed for lead acid
 

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Registered
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243 Posts
GL to all involved. Ill be waiting for feedback & results.
My Interstate lead acid battery installed a month ago in my 12-C continues working great and testing perfectly
Have not had it on trickle charger but drive car every 3 days
One dealer quoted me $350 to reprogram from lithium to lead acid
My regular dealer re programed setting for free
Also...
The male cigarette lighter type plug of my Battery Tender does not make a good connection into the OEM female receptical near the hood latch mechanism so my mechanic removed the carpeting /etc and wired the regular wire in
He said he never can get a cigarette lighter plug to make a good connection in a McLaren
Again, my dealer says only 12-C, 650 S ,and 675 can be reprogrammed for lead acid
 
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