[RC33]

I recently got my local dealership to retrofit optional Carbon Ceramic brakes onto my MO12C.


According to official specifications at a glance:
Brakes Cast iron discs with forged aluminum hubs
Brake Size (F / R) 370mm / 350mm
Brake Calipers (F / R) 4piston / 4piston

Optional Brakes Carbon Ceramic disc
Optional Brake Size (F / R) 394mm / 380mm
Optional Brake Calipers (F / R) 6piston / 4piston

http://www.mclarenautomotive.com/uk/p11/pages/techspec.aspx

Together with the kind assistance of the specialist and technicians at the workshop, we managed to record down relevant values to ascertain the quantitative results of the weight differences between the 2 variants.



Rear Brakes: Both options utilizes the 4 pot calipers, so only the rotors differ. Other visible hardware changes include a new slightly larger bracket for the rear parking brake and the carbon air duct. This results approximately 2.2kg (4.84lbs) of weight savings per corner.


Front Brakes: The Carbon Ceramic brake system utilizes the heftier 6 pot calipers, larger pads and the carbon air duct. Please note that the weight of the front 4 calipers in the picture taken includes the steel braided brake lines, bolt, caliper pins x 2 and pad spring (hidden from sight). This results about approximately 0.6kg (1.32lb) of weight savings per corner.


Above results assume the weight differences in the common bolts and nuts that were used to secure the components. I also assume the rear 4 pot calipers between the 2 variants were relatively negligible and was hence not measured. It also does not account for the additional brake fluids that the considerably larger 6 calipers may contain.


The project conversion also requires a software update downloaded to the car’s ECU to cater for any difference in parameters to reflect performance variations between the brake systems. Total job took about 2.5 days.



An interesting observation during installation was that the Calipers and front pads are manufactured by AP Racing whereas the Carbon Ceramic Rotors + aluminum hats and rear pads are manufactured by Brembo.



The evaluation was only meant to ascertain approximate quantifiable weight savings that will relate to inherent advantages of lesser Unsprung Mass between the 2 variations for those of us who are interested to know.

Best!

 

[andy c]

Thanks for the effort RC33,so the CCB are actually lighter by quite some margin than the iron brakes,an extra 12lbs of unsprung weight is far more than we expected and i now wonder why the PR department made the mistake of telling us the opposite,apart from justifying not to offer CCB as standard to save money,first time i have been dissapointed in the information i recieved while speccing my car

 

[McDc]

Thanks for the effort RC33,so the CCB are actually lighter by quite some margin than the iron brakes,an extra 12lbs of unsprung weight is far more than we expected and i now wonder why the <acronym title="Google Page Ranking">PR</acronym> department made the mistake of telling us the opposite,apart from justifying not to offer CCB as standard to save money,first time i have been dissapointed in the information i recieved while speccing my car

+1

 

[dhayek]

wow! great info, thanks for the effort rc33, now im enjoying more my ccb's!

 

[McDc]

RC33, would you mind telling us the cost for the conversion ? Or let me know by PM if you prefer.

 

[Champagne612]

Great info - when shopping most the dealers push the steel brakes vs ceramics.

Beside the weight looks and ease of cleaning they are way up there on the cool factor.

Biggest disadvantage is a little rock can do a lot of damage.

 

[fiksegts]

great info, come people here were saying that the steel brakes were lighter.....

 

[McDc]

great info, all of people here were touting that the steel brakes were lighter.....

So did McLaren..

 

[andy c]

great info, all of people here were touting that the steel brakes were lighter.....

Now you know why im dissapointed in being told so by Mclaren!!

 

[6th element]

Now you know why im dissapointed in being told so by Mclaren!!

Let them hear it andy! Maybe there is something being overlooked, tho I can't imagine what.

OP , thanks for the effort. Great info!

 

[RC33]

From where I live, the Government taxes on Luxury cars are extremely high. When speccing up the 12C, I was always mindful of the costs involved and if various options could be retrofitted after delivery. Fitting it out thereafter cost considerably less expensive and I get to keep the Original Cast irons brakes system.

Like everyone else, I was told that the standard cast iron brakes were 'lighter' and perform just as well as the optional CCM. I never for once bought that fact, I was deliberating how is it possible for Cast Iron to be lighter than the Carbon rotors even if the Cast iron comes equipped with Aluminum hats? Why would Carbon Ceramics be include as an option if the Cast Irons were truly 'better'?

The MP4-12C is truly a remarkably fast supercar designed by science and state of the art F1 technology, the only component I could not get around and over my head was the Standard Cast Iron brakes. Other excuses was aesthetically how awesome the 6 pot caliper + the 394mm Carbon Ceramic rotors 'filled' up the wheels. Other practical excuse was the dread of cleaning up the messy brake dusts and scrubbing the rusty deposits on the inner wheel every time I personally wash and detail the car.

IMHO, a cool car should come equipped with cool components.

Perhaps this thread could help existing and potential owners make a better informed decision in possible retrofits and future purchases.

 

[isv]

Thanks for the effort RC33,so the CCB are actually lighter by quite some margin than the iron brakes,an extra 12lbs of unsprung weight is far more than we expected and i now wonder why the <acronym title="Google Page Ranking">PR</acronym> department made the mistake of telling us the opposite,apart from justifying not to offer CCB as standard to save money,first time i have been dissapointed in the information i recieved while speccing my car

Makes one wonder why on earth Mclaren were/are adamant about ceramics being heavier. One would have thought more customers speccing ceramics would be a decent extra earner for them as well!

 

[extremeride22]

From where I live, the Government taxes on Luxury cars are extremely high. When speccing up the 12C, I was always mindful of the costs involved and if various options could be retrofitted after delivery. Fitting it out thereafter cost considerably less expensive and I get to keep the Original Cast irons brakes system.

Like everyone else, I was told that the standard cast iron brakes were 'lighter' and perform just as well as the optional CCM. I never for once bought that fact, I was deliberating how is it possible for Cast Iron to be lighter than the Carbon rotors even if the Cast iron comes equipped with Aluminum hats? Why would Carbon Ceramics be include as an option if the Cast Irons were truly 'better'?

The MP4-12C is truly a remarkably fast supercar designed by science and state of the art F1 technology, the only component I could not get around and over my head was the Standard Cast Iron brakes. Other excuses was aesthetically how awesome the 6 pot caliper + the 394mm Carbon Ceramic rotors 'filled' up the wheels. Other practical excuse was the dread of cleaning up the messy brake dusts and scrubbing the rusty deposits on the inner wheel every time I personally wash and detail the car.

IMHO, a cool car should come equipped with cool components.

Perhaps this thread could help existing and potential owners make a better informed decision in possible retrofits and future purchases.

So in the end RC33 what was your overall cost of performing this whole retrofit from iron to carbon ceramic. Chances are I'm treading towards doing the exact same project, although I will probably part with the current components since they are still brand spanking new. Great write up and research much appreciated. Cheers.....??

 

[Markjayw]

+1

Lol, same here?

 

[RC33]

More pictures of the retrofit Carbon Ceramic Brake project...

A lighter brake system, lighter wheels, lighter bolts leads to a lower Unsprung weight.
How does this relate to our daily driving experience in real world conditions on the street and track?

Effects of unsprung weight
The unsprung weight of a wheel controls a trade-off between a wheel's bump-following ability and its vibration isolation. Bumps and surface imperfections in the road cause tire compression—which induces a force on the unsprung weight. The unsprung weight then responds to this force with movement of its own. The amount of movement, for short bumps, is inversely proportional to the weight - a lighter wheel which readily moves in response to road bump swill have more grip and more constant grip when tracking over an imperfect road. For this reason, lighter wheels are sought especially for high-performance applications.

In contrast, a heavier wheel which moves less will not absorb as much vibration; the irregularities of the road surface will transfer to the cabin through the geometry of the suspension and hence ride quality and road noise are deteriorated. For longer bumps that the wheels follow, greater unsprung mass causes more energy to be absorbed by the wheels and makes the ride worse. High unsprung weight also exacerbates wheel control issues under hard acceleration or braking... vertical forces exerted by acceleration or hard braking combined with high unsprung mass can lead to severe wheel hop, compromising traction and steering control.
Extract from Wikipedia in the following link: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unsprung_weight

 

[RC33]

Prodrive Air Ducts

This is an undercarriage view of the Prodrive Carbon Air Ducts that comes only as part of a system that is required with the Carbon Ceramic Brakes.
Note the difference in the position of the carbon air ducts between the front and rear in redirecting the fresh air flow onto the Carbon Ceramic Rotors.

McLaren engineers have a practical reason and design for every part and component in a high performance super car.

 

[RC33]

So in the end RC33 what was your overall cost of performing this whole retrofit from iron to carbon ceramic. Chances are I'm treading towards doing the exact same project, although I will probably part with the current components since they are still brand spanking new. Great write up and research much appreciated. Cheers.....??

I would believe the cost of retrofit will vary in different regions and countries subject to current hardware pricing, different labor cost and corresponding taxes.

It is best to enquire with your local authorized McLaren dealership to ascertain if you are prepared to proceed with the cost vis-a-vis the benefits of its inherent performance.

 

[extremeride22]

This is an undercarriage view of the Prodrive Carbon Air Ducts that comes only as part of a system that is required with the Carbon Ceramic Brakes.
Note the difference in the position of the carbon air ducts between the front and rear in redirecting the fresh air flow onto the Carbon Ceramic Rotors.

McLaren engineers have a practical reason and design for every part and component in a high performance super car.

More great information and pictures RC33, just what I need a little more enticing. I can just see it now the money flowing from my pocket and into the hands of Pfaff McLaren. Although I do enjoy these current modification projects, in so doing it will just add to the already delayed release of my car.

 

[extremeride22]

??.Cheers....??

 

[RC33]

Visual Comparison before and after

A visual comparison of the 12C between the Cast Iron and the Carbon Ceramic Brakes installed.

According to official specifications at a glance:
Brakes Cast iron discs with forged aluminum hubs
Brake Size (F / R) 370mm / 350mm
Brake Calipers (F / R) 4piston / 4piston

Optional Brakes Carbon Ceramic disc
Optional Brake Size (F / R) 394mm / 380mm
Optional Brake Calipers (F / R) 6piston / 4piston

After the installation, I immediately drove to a secluded private location and proceed to street burnish the brakes system.
You may click on the following link to read more ....http://www.mclarenlife.com/forums/mclaren-lounge/2073-bedding-new-ccm-brakes-pads-rotors.html#post38041