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Hey you guys that went, andy, zippy, ....
Was there anything said during the day that you can share here in the private owner's section (i.e. that you wouldn't post in the public section of the forum). Don't care about P12, but I mean anything with regards to planned updates for the 12C? Timeline for IRIS? Anything? The reports you guys are writing in the other thread are awfully vague for having spent several hours with the top brass! Cheers and thanks.
 

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Hey you guys that went, andy, zippy, ....
Was there anything said during the day that you can share here in the private owner's section (i.e. that you wouldn't post in the public section of the forum). Don't care about P12, but I mean anything with regards to planned updates for the 12C? Timeline for IRIS? Anything? The reports you guys are writing in the other thread are awfully vague for having spent several hours with the top brass! Cheers and thanks.
They acknowledged some issues need dealing with, some need more consideration and some issues were rationalised as OKish.

In my sessions there was no view on timetables which, probably, was not their particular area of accountability........a bit Corporate if you want to be unfair, which I can be as I have made a big commitment to this enterprise.

They did ask for further specific feedback on some throttle and gearbox issues.......we all said the throttle blips, or misbehaves, in low gears when changing up......typically 2nd to 3rd....and for me on the downchange as well.

What I failed to hear in catorgoric terms was that they would stay with and support the early cars but I judge they will or is it hope? Really at this stage they have been responsive and supportive.

As regards hard response I think that would be a mistake by them at this stage. But commitment to the customer is where their at untill the smoke clears. Bit vague I guess.
 

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Did they have any comment on this place?
They said they had many discussions and meetings about what is said on here,and i didnt prompt them,they made it plain they valued our opinions warts and all
 

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They acknowledged some issues need dealing with, some need more consideration and some issues were rationalised as OKish.

In my sessions there was no view on timetables which, probably, was not their particular area of accountability........a bit Corporate if you want to be unfair, which I can be as I have made a big commitment to this enterprise.

They did ask for further specific feedback on some throttle and gearbox issues.......we all said the throttle blips, or misbehaves, in low gears when changing up......typically 2nd to 3rd....and for me on the downchange as well.

What I failed to hear in catorgoric terms was that they would stay with and support the early cars but I judge they will or is it hope? Really at this stage they have been responsive and supportive.

As regards hard response I think that would be a mistake by them at this stage. But commitment to the customer is where their at untill the smoke clears. Bit vague I guess.
I was told that we were there as early adopters! (a name they dont particularly like) and any problems we had would be supported,i said it was important that car 1 would be the same as car 5000,they couldnt really disagree could they,and i have the confidence in them,or i wouldnt be here,lets hope i prove to be right
 

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Hi Chaps, sorry I haven’t provided a more detailed report before, but at last I have a few spare minutes.

Like Andy and others, chose not to say too much on the open forum.

As far as IRIS is concerned, looks like we are some way off a fully functioning system, although the problems have been immense.

Some owners discussed the possibility of releasing the various bits of IRIS in phases and most wanted Bluetooth first. This was merely discussed and by no means a certainty at this stage

Bluetooth is operational in test cars at the moment and I get the impression that whilst most of us would be happy with where they are now, McLaren aren’t and don’t just want to be as good as everyone else's system, but superior.

Sat nav – seems McLaren don’t just want to replicate what is out there already, but go some way beyond, hence the delays to date and possibly trying to achieve the impossible – a system that doesn’t give erroneous directions!

One of the problems with all sat nav systems apparently, is reflected signals, particularly from tall buildings. The signal comes from opposite direction to where it should do, totally baffling the unit.

McLaren are trying to adopt some type of dead reckoning system, so that even when the satellite signal is lost or erroneous, it still knows where it is going.

The problem with the radio reception is that there isn’t actually a radio receiver, just a clever computer. This is picking all sorts of electrical interference from all of the other systems. One possible solution is to actually fit a dedicated tuner/receiver and this would be retro fitted to all cars.

Asked if DAB would be offered and this was given a definite no.

Software changes are afoot for the Meridian sound system that will hopefully answer the criticisms, although some people find it just perfect, it appears that it is all down to taste/type of music and own personal listening preferences.

I think I am with the majority, however, who are far from satisfied.

Even Antony Sheriff was bemused that no sound could be heard until 52 or so. Apparently this is a Meridian quirk, as each number represents some sort of increase, but not the obvious one - of volume and sound!

It is hoped that there will be much more adjustment to the sound, just like on an Ipod, with concert, rock, pop, etc., defaults, plus the “pure” Meridian sound which is enjoyed by about 10% of owners.

Hopefully this will also address the compression, file type issues that have been mentioned elsewhere and I noted that even with very high bit rate samples, I didn’t think the sound was that mind blowing.

Sadly, though, these changes are still months away.

Not an actual technical issue, but I mentioned the sun visors and for a short *rse like me, find them totally useless, particularly with the low sun at the moment.

Turns out that if they had been any bigger (by 1mm actually), the car would have failed the US safety tests. The test in question is for people sat in the seat without a seatbelt (yep, in the US you even have to account for this) and where their head would hit in the event of an accident.

If anything, this shows the complexities of designing a car for a world market and all of the resultant constraints and compromises that befall the final product.

As far as past issues are concerned, these were initially reported and discussed on a daily basis and up to seven days a week and all were actioned and immediate attempts were made to rectify them.

The door opening problems and dead battery issue was one that the very early owners experienced on a very intermittent and ad hoc basis.

Believe it or not, there are 168 different ways to get into the car, by which I assume that this means different occurrence, like, boot open and left door entry, window down and right door entry and so on. I would struggle to find a couple of dozen, but McLaren found 168.

They then went repeatedly through every option again and again, trying to find a situation where there was an unexpected load/drain on the battery.

An issue was identified and sorted, although just lately it has been discovered that it could all be down to defective batteries from their supplier.

I am going on a bit now, but something else which shows how damn near impossible it is to get things right from the outset and this concerns the key fob.

When you push down on it, it deflects an input on a circuit board. This deflection, measured in Newton Metres (or fractions of) I recall, was tested at great length and withstood all tests.

In the field, however, if you didn’t push the button dead centre, you got a leverage effect and the part was subjected to many times the anticipated load. This is turn led to a tiny hairline crack in the circuit board giving occasional intermittent signals and leading to the reported key fob problems.

The circuit board and fob have been slightly redesigned to avoid this issue in the future.

I have probably not explained this too well, but when I was told, you could see just how unlikely it would be to pick this up pre-production.

On a closing note, Antony Sheriff noted, without prompting, that he personally reads McLaren Life two or three times a week. So there you have it, this message board is even viewed by the number one man himself.

To get the opportunity to sit with Antony Sheriff over lunch (or any other time) is something not to be missed and I certainly felt privileged to have the opportunity to do so.

His knowledge about the car, the testing, the faults and every aspect about the company and its after sales, is second to none and encyclopaedic. His anecdotes, which I will not publish, were priceless.

Sorry that this has turned out such a lengthy post, but the more I recalled from last week, the more I have tried to pass on.
 

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Hi Chaps, sorry I haven’t provided a more detailed report before, but at last I have a few spare minutes.

Like Andy and others, chose not to say too much on the open forum.

As far as IRIS is concerned, looks like we are some way off a fully functioning system, although the problems have been immense.

Some owners discussed the possibility of releasing the various bits of IRIS in phases and most wanted Bluetooth first. This was merely discussed and by no means a certainty at this stage

Bluetooth is operational in test cars at the moment and I get the impression that whilst most of us would be happy with where they are now, McLaren aren’t and don’t just want to be as good as everyone else's system, but superior.

Sat nav – seems McLaren don’t just want to replicate what is out there already, but go some way beyond, hence the delays to date and possibly trying to achieve the impossible – a system that doesn’t give erroneous directions!

One of the problems with all sat nav systems apparently, is reflected signals, particularly from tall buildings. The signal comes from opposite direction to where it should do, totally baffling the unit.

McLaren are trying to adopt some type of dead reckoning system, so that even when the satellite signal is lost or erroneous, it still knows where it is going.

The problem with the radio reception is that there isn’t actually a radio receiver, just a clever computer. This is picking all sorts of electrical interference from all of the other systems. One possible solution is to actually fit a dedicated tuner/receiver and this would be retro fitted to all cars.

Asked if DAB would be offered and this was given a definite no.

Software changes are afoot for the Meridian sound system that will hopefully answer the criticisms, although some people find it just perfect, it appears that it is all down to taste/type of music and own personal listening preferences.

I think I am with the majority, however, who are far from satisfied.

Even Antony Sheriff was bemused that no sound could be heard until 52 or so. Apparently this is a Meridian quirk, as each number represents some sort of increase, but not the obvious one - of volume and sound!

It is hoped that there will be much more adjustment to the sound, just like on an Ipod, with concert, rock, pop, etc., defaults, plus the “pure” Meridian sound which is enjoyed by about 10% of owners.

Hopefully this will also address the compression, file type issues that have been mentioned elsewhere and I noted that even with very high bit rate samples, I didn’t think the sound was that mind blowing.

Sadly, though, these changes are still months away.

Not an actual technical issue, but I mentioned the sun visors and for a short *rse like me, find them totally useless, particularly with the low sun at the moment.

Turns out that if they had been any bigger (by 1mm actually), the car would have failed the US safety tests. The test in question is for people sat in the seat without a seatbelt (yep, in the US you even have to account for this) and where their head would hit in the event of an accident.

If anything, this shows the complexities of designing a car for a world market and all of the resultant constraints and compromises that befall the final product.

As far as past issues are concerned, these were initially reported and discussed on a daily basis and up to seven days a week and all were actioned and immediate attempts were made to rectify them.

The door opening problems and dead battery issue was one that the very early owners experienced on a very intermittent and ad hoc basis.

Believe it or not, there are 168 different ways to get into the car, by which I assume that this means different occurrence, like, boot open and left door entry, window down and right door entry and so on. I would struggle to find a couple of dozen, but McLaren found 168.

They then went repeatedly through every option again and again, trying to find a situation where there was an unexpected load/drain on the battery.

An issue was identified and sorted, although just lately it has been discovered that it could all be down to defective batteries from their supplier.

I am going on a bit now, but something else which shows how damn near impossible it is to get things right from the outset and this concerns the key fob.

When you push down on it, it deflects an input on a circuit board. This deflection, measured in Newton Metres (or fractions of) I recall, was tested at great length and withstood all tests.

In the field, however, if you didn’t push the button dead centre, you got a leverage effect and the part was subjected to many times the anticipated load. This is turn led to a tiny hairline crack in the circuit board giving occasional intermittent signals and leading to the reported key fob problems.

The circuit board and fob have been slightly redesigned to avoid this issue in the future.

I have probably not explained this too well, but when I was told, you could see just how unlikely it would be to pick this up pre-production.

On a closing note, Antony Sheriff noted, without prompting, that he personally reads McLaren Life two or three times a week. So there you have it, this message board is even viewed by the number one man himself.

To get the opportunity to sit with Antony Sheriff over lunch (or any other time) is something not to be missed and I certainly felt privileged to have the opportunity to do so.

His knowledge about the car, the testing, the faults and every aspect about the company and its after sales, is second to none and encyclopaedic. His anecdotes, which I will not publish, were priceless.

Sorry that this has turned out such a lengthy post, but the more I recalled from last week, the more I have tried to pass on.
No need to apologize for the length zippycar! Rather, I thank you very much for bumping the post and adding your notes. The more detail the better for those of us that are eagerly waiting from afar for any details.

I'm just so thrilled to hear of the company's ongoing commitment to getting everything up to their own standards of perfection.
 

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Hi Chaps, sorry I haven’t provided a more detailed report before, but at last I have a few spare minutes.

Like Andy and others, chose not to say too much on the open forum.

As far as IRIS is concerned, looks like we are some way off a fully functioning system, although the problems have been immense.

Some owners discussed the possibility of releasing the various bits of IRIS in phases and most wanted Bluetooth first. This was merely discussed and by no means a certainty at this stage

Bluetooth is operational in test cars at the moment and I get the impression that whilst most of us would be happy with where they are now, McLaren aren’t and don’t just want to be as good as everyone else's system, but superior.

Sat nav – seems McLaren don’t just want to replicate what is out there already, but go some way beyond, hence the delays to date and possibly trying to achieve the impossible – a system that doesn’t give erroneous directions!

One of the problems with all sat nav systems apparently, is reflected signals, particularly from tall buildings. The signal comes from opposite direction to where it should do, totally baffling the unit.

McLaren are trying to adopt some type of dead reckoning system, so that even when the satellite signal is lost or erroneous, it still knows where it is going.

The problem with the radio reception is that there isn’t actually a radio receiver, just a clever computer. This is picking all sorts of electrical interference from all of the other systems. One possible solution is to actually fit a dedicated tuner/receiver and this would be retro fitted to all cars.

Asked if DAB would be offered and this was given a definite no.

Software changes are afoot for the Meridian sound system that will hopefully answer the criticisms, although some people find it just perfect, it appears that it is all down to taste/type of music and own personal listening preferences.

I think I am with the majority, however, who are far from satisfied.

Even Antony Sheriff was bemused that no sound could be heard until 52 or so. Apparently this is a Meridian quirk, as each number represents some sort of increase, but not the obvious one - of volume and sound!

It is hoped that there will be much more adjustment to the sound, just like on an Ipod, with concert, rock, pop, etc., defaults, plus the “pure” Meridian sound which is enjoyed by about 10% of owners.

Hopefully this will also address the compression, file type issues that have been mentioned elsewhere and I noted that even with very high bit rate samples, I didn’t think the sound was that mind blowing.

Sadly, though, these changes are still months away.

Not an actual technical issue, but I mentioned the sun visors and for a short *rse like me, find them totally useless, particularly with the low sun at the moment.

Turns out that if they had been any bigger (by 1mm actually), the car would have failed the US safety tests. The test in question is for people sat in the seat without a seatbelt (yep, in the US you even have to account for this) and where their head would hit in the event of an accident.

If anything, this shows the complexities of designing a car for a world market and all of the resultant constraints and compromises that befall the final product.

As far as past issues are concerned, these were initially reported and discussed on a daily basis and up to seven days a week and all were actioned and immediate attempts were made to rectify them.

The door opening problems and dead battery issue was one that the very early owners experienced on a very intermittent and ad hoc basis.

Believe it or not, there are 168 different ways to get into the car, by which I assume that this means different occurrence, like, boot open and left door entry, window down and right door entry and so on. I would struggle to find a couple of dozen, but McLaren found 168.

They then went repeatedly through every option again and again, trying to find a situation where there was an unexpected load/drain on the battery.

An issue was identified and sorted, although just lately it has been discovered that it could all be down to defective batteries from their supplier.

I am going on a bit now, but something else which shows how damn near impossible it is to get things right from the outset and this concerns the key fob.

When you push down on it, it deflects an input on a circuit board. This deflection, measured in Newton Metres (or fractions of) I recall, was tested at great length and withstood all tests.

In the field, however, if you didn’t push the button dead centre, you got a leverage effect and the part was subjected to many times the anticipated load. This is turn led to a tiny hairline crack in the circuit board giving occasional intermittent signals and leading to the reported key fob problems.

The circuit board and fob have been slightly redesigned to avoid this issue in the future.

I have probably not explained this too well, but when I was told, you could see just how unlikely it would be to pick this up pre-production.

On a closing note, Antony Sheriff noted, without prompting, that he personally reads McLaren Life two or three times a week. So there you have it, this message board is even viewed by the number one man himself.

To get the opportunity to sit with Antony Sheriff over lunch (or any other time) is something not to be missed and I certainly felt privileged to have the opportunity to do so.

His knowledge about the car, the testing, the faults and every aspect about the company and its after sales, is second to none and encyclopaedic. His anecdotes, which I will not publish, were priceless.

Sorry that this has turned out such a lengthy post, but the more I recalled from last week, the more I have tried to pass on.
Outstanding post. Many thanks.
 

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Zippy car, thanks, can Anthony Sherrif and others at Mclaren get access to the owners lounge?
 

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Zippy car, thanks, can Anthony Sherrif and others at Mclaren get access to the owners lounge?
No, they cannot. I'll post a list of who has access. We need to make sure it stays owners.

As with anything, this is semi-private in that of course others can read it so I would still exercise caution. So anything you write can harmlessly be copy/pasted and emailed etc
 

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Zippy, was the cars dynamics discussed like turbo lag, brake performance, lifting suspension.........
 

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Zippy, was the cars dynamics discussed like turbo lag, brake performance, lifting suspension.........
Thanks RWD for feedback, what was discussed at lunch was informal and to some part, off the record and not for general consumption.

Nothing too secret or confidential said, but prefer to preserve my observations to existing owners and so thanks for your assurances, although doesn’t Mr Sheriff sort of own one or two 12c’s.

Thought I’d messed up (again) but checking with the McLaren website, there is no H in Antony Sheriff’s name, previously got the R’s and F’s muddled up though!!

RIC, looks like we failed you with regards to dynamics, turbo lag, brake performance and lifting suspension.

Aside from turbo lag, the others are not issues that I have experienced or worried about first hand.

As you will hopefully have gathered by now, each and every issue raised by either an owner or dealer is considered and reviewed by management in detail, now only two or three times per week, but that’s purely because a lot of problems are getting ironed out.

I am sure if you have specific issues that you would like to raise, McLaren will listen and whether they consider them valid or not, they will come back to you with a specific response.

Besides Antony, the other person on our table for lunch last week was Haden, who is in charge of all 12C post production (can’t remember his official title). Like all McLaren staff I have met to date (bar one – no names, no pack drill) he is totally objective, very approachable, not a yes man and fully committed to 12C cause.

I am sure he would be very receptive to you specific issues and concerns.
 

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Very good guys - glad to hear the news, and thanks for passing on our concerns. This is an exciting endeavor, and I'm thrilled to be in on the action early on - because all the concerns we've encountered will likely be addressed pre-release in futures cars (P12, P13, etc) meaning our future acquisitions will be substantially better from day 1 thanks to our input now.
 

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Zippy, thanks, we had a different team at our lunch and have a continuing dialogue. I have been hosted by Antony Sherrif at the MPC and elsewhere a couple of times and find him very open, sharp and in control. I am pleased he is leading the show and judge he has a receive Chanel.

My concern is that our early cars are brought up to spec as things change and improve. So far so good but time will tell.
 

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This is great stuff. Thanks for sharing. I will make my feedback to the mothership much more detailed as a result.
 

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Great Info Zippy!!! Thanks.

I like the commitment McLaren has shown to the 12C owners but time will tell if the issues are all sorted to our liking.
 

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Guys
if an inidiviual is PO'd, then all the promises will count for nought, and all the (minor) issues will magnify over time and evenually there will be one anti-McLaren man posting on Ferrari chat about what a piece of junk the car is. We cannot do anything about these people, other than by encouraging the factory to resolve problems quickly and keep the communications channels open. I for one could list loads of niggles (most of which have been raised on this forum), but the underlying vehicle is so stupendous that I'm not complaining too much - if McLaren want to make 100% sure of their fixes before implementing, I'm OK with this approach.
Thanks to all the owners who've been updating us about the factory's attitude. I'll be spending six weeks in UK this summer, and wonder if it would be worth another trip to Woking to meet up and discuss progress on rectification of the problems? Also, if there's any owners in or around Cumbria, I'd love to meet up and put faces to the avatars.
 
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