[Jerry]

Just been reading about some of the issues that Boeing have been having with the Dreamliner ...

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-20988117

To quote from the article "The Boeing 787 Dreamliner is one of the most advanced aeroplanes ever created. Much of it is made from very strong, light carbon-fibre composite material. However, a spate of technical issues has hurt its image. " Now replace Boeing with McLaren and 787 Dreamliner with MP4-12C and that paragraph is still correct (need to change aeroplanes to cars also).

Just goes to show that making the most technically advanced, highest performing, most efficient vehicle (be that plane or car) is never as easy as the manufacturer originally thinks? I'd rather be in my 12C at ground level than at 40 thousand feet in a 787 if/when something does go wrong!

 

[texas mongrel]

Favorite Dreamliner story: Boeing's philosophy is to sub-contract the aircraft and essentially become "assemblers" rather than manufacturers. Anyway, when the various CF elements were delivered from the different suppliers during the prototype stage, each fuselage section was a different diameter! Oops...

 

[roundincircles]

A friend of mine is a Pilot for a UK airline. He says he will not fly the Dreamliner until it has three years in service.........if asked to deliver new planes from Boeing he expects to get sick/ill if it is a Dreamliner

 

[ergoproxy]

Is the A380 doing better?

 

[roundincircles]

Is the A380 doing better?

Time will tellr

Interestingly the guys who I know that are working on the 380 are happy to fly on it and they are in the electrics/electronic side of the plane.........and it is FBW (FLY BY WIRE)

 

[qvpower]

I wouldnt want to be on a Dreamliner because if the carbon fiber structure fails it's goodbye. Carbon fiber can develop microscopic cracks and these microscopic cracks overtime affect the rigidity of the structure. I wouldn't worry about the airplane when brand new. I would worry about the plane as it ages.

 

[roundincircles]

I wouldnt want to be on a Dreamliner because if the carbon fiber structure fails it's goodbye. Carbon fiber can develop microscopic cracks and these microscopic cracks overtime affect the rigidity of the structure. I wouldn't worry about the airplane when brand new. I would worry about the plane as it ages.

Apparently it is the interface, or joining, of the carbon to aluminium and steel that concerns the engineers who won't fly the plane. I'm sure the resin cracking will cause problems, and the engine fan blades together with the computer fly by wire Iris software.

 

[483hp]

Composites have been used in the military and on commercial aircraft for some time. 747's were the first to use it in the tail section. Existing airliners already use a considerable amount of composite materials. Also, fly by wire has been used by Airbus airliners since the mid '80's.

There is an extensive amount of experience in the industry spanning decades. These would not be used in mass transportation if the confidence wasn't incredibly high. I think we are fine with respect to catastrophic failure.

Unfortunately this confirms that the first production run of every product always has a few glitches no matter how thorough you think you've been. Do you remember the videos of the Airbus air show crashes? This problem was dealt with quickly and since then it hasn't been a serious concern. Fly by wire is used everywhere now. The 787 fire is a major concern since it occurred on an on-service aircraft. They have only delivered 50 examples so far. The Airbus fly by wire glitches causing those early crashes was the last time something this serious has happened on a brand new plane design IMO.

 

[roundincircles]

483hp. Good summary but in some ways you justify waiting some time before flying these new designs. I believe the engines have 500,000 mile service intervals so confidence is high regarding performance.

In military composite aircraft each passenger is provided with an ejection seat......kinda comforting

 

[Peloton25]

I've flown on an AirFrance A380 twice now - never had a better experience in the air. It's like the Rolls Royce of passenger aircraft.

I do worry about what happens to the mindset of travelers if one was ever lost though. They can be configured to seat from around 500 to more than 800 people in just one aircraft. 583 people were lost when two 747s collided in Tenerife, Spain back in 1977 but an A380 crash could dwarf that figure easily. Let's hope that never happens.

>8^)
ER

 

[Mikeyb]

one rule of thumb
if you get on to an a380 and there's five pilots in the cockpit.. get the cluck off cos something bad's going to happen.. the Qantas issue at Singapore had exactly that.. training pilots chief pilots the lot... luckily when the computers got lost as to what happened, between the five of them they worked it all out and as we know it landed safely..

 

[483hp]

The paranoia is overdone on this plane. Every new product has teething issues. On something so over engineered as an aircraft, you never see anything serious. These days, everything is reported on the internet whereas back when the aircraft were supposedly "safer" and built from metal, you never heard of anything unless it was a crash!!

I have no hesitations to fly this plane at all. Everything so far seems to be have been resolved including the fire which appears to have been a faulty battery.

 

[Boxer (aka SSO)]

I wouldnt want to be on a Dreamliner because if the carbon fiber structure fails it's goodbye. Carbon fiber can develop microscopic cracks and these microscopic cracks overtime affect the rigidity of the structure. I wouldn't worry about the airplane when brand new. I would worry about the plane as it ages.

Same can happen on a normal aluminum fuselage. A few years ago a piece popped off of a plane over Hawaii.

 

[TougeSpirit]

As an aeronautical engineer, I can definitely say, the fear is overblown. All new aircraft have teething problems. Perhaps not as dangerous as the dreamliner's fire, but that was on the ground and the problem was traced to faulty installation/wiring/battery. Composites are absolutely fine for aircraft, no problems whatsoever. The A380's structure "problems" are just due to the sheer size of that wing and the loads it is under to lift such a heavy aircraft. It takes a lot more work to accurately model the loads and stresses under wind gusting and aeroelastic effects. No problem with CF/Al joining either. It's been done a long time. Aircraft built with Al/Steel had their issues too. Under cyclical loading and at a certain stress, they will eventually fail.