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Hi guys. Anyone else had this error warning on a 12c? It's happened to me twice so far, on both occasions when making a sudden turn to park at a bit of a sloping angle. The car just stalls and this message comes up. It then starts ok after a few try's...

Checked the oil level and it is ok.

Any ideas anyone?
 

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Hi guys. Anyone else had this error warning on a 12c? It's happened to me twice so far, on both occasions when making a sudden turn to park at a bit of a sloping angle. The car just stalls and this message comes up. It then starts ok after a few try's...

Checked the oil level and it is ok.

Any ideas anyone?
Yeah, I've seen the warning a couple times, too. Always at idle RPM or lower, engine hot, with the throttle closed and with the nose of the car pointing downhill.

I assume that your "sudden turn to park" also involved a sudden application of the brakes from low speed, probably in second gear. If so, it's possible that the engine RPM was dragged down to below idle before the transmission realized that it should disengage the clutches. Maybe that's what stalled the engine.

Anyway, it's certainly conceivable that the oil pressure might read low under those out-of-the-ordinary conditions. I wouldn't worry too much about it, although if it ever happens at normal RPM, that's very different and you should switch the engine off as soon as you safely can.
 

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Yeah, I've seen the warning a couple times, too. Always at idle RPM or lower, engine hot, with the throttle closed and with the nose of the car pointing downhill.

I assume that your "sudden turn to park" also involved a sudden application of the brakes from low speed, probably in second gear. If so, it's possible that the engine RPM was dragged down to below idle before the transmission realized that it should disengage the clutches. Maybe that's what stalled the engine.

Anyway, it's certainly conceivable that the oil pressure might read low under those out-of-the-ordinary conditions. I wouldn't worry too much about it, although if it ever happens at normal RPM, that's very different and you should switch the engine off as soon as you safely can.
Thanks - thats exactly how it happended on both occassions.

Feel better now :)

Thanks again
 

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The low oil pressure warning hopefully was triggered by the car stalling. If that is the case it wouldn't be a real issue imo. If you get the low oil pressure warning on it's own that's a different matter.
 

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Thanks - thats exactly how it happended on both occassions.

Feel better now :)

Thanks again
I wouldn't feel good about any of that. There is no simplementation and linear oil pressure sensor on the McLaren. This is highly unusual for a vehicle of this sophistication and caliber. In fact, it seems unprecedented in the Supercar world. The only pressure sensor regarding oil in this car, is this stupid dummy switch that only goes off if you're below 7-5 PSI. This makes me worry about this engine. I am installing an oil pressure sensor on my car when I install my prototype turbo kit. I will let everyone know if I see anything strange going on. I will try to replicate what you guys have seen in the conditions that you guys had the car in. I will report out on what the pressure shows. While using a MoTec M1 I will be able to fully datalog everything.
 

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I have a 2012 MP4-12C with 5,000 miles that I just picked up. I had the "Low Oil Pressure" alarm and rough idle issue followed by a check engine light so I took it in to a McLaren dealership.

Allegedly I have a bad timing phaser / variator which are attached to the cam and will require $14,500 in service to repair 1 of the 4 cam shafts. I'm talking with McLaren to get some assistance even though they are currently viewing this as a "low oil level" event which potentially damaged the return spring for the cam timing variator. They have denied a good faith repair request but they have been assisting in discovery with great vigilance, which I am appreciative of.

Over the 5,000 mile usage my 12C has had 4 services and when the dealership metered the oil removed from the vehicle it was not low. I have no basis for why my low mile 12C has failed and thus no confidence it wont occur 3 more times. My issue was noticed on startup after washing the car.

I can't help but feel there is potential for defective cams on early manufactured 12C's. It is oddly similar to the Maserati variator issues. I have been told by a McLaren tech that Maserati and McLaren used the same cam manufacture for the early 12C which intensifies my concern. (I could not verify this information but the tech has been Maserati and then McLaren certified for more than 10 years)

Anyone have a similar experience with early vin 12Cs, I think my vin# is in the 190's
 

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In early ownership mine stalled three or 4 times, usually when slow manoeuvring or reversing.
This brought the low oil warning up and that wonder beep we all got used too!


It would always struggle to restart, similar to when you try to hot start.
Not sure if it was software but it would never do it at the dealers.
It certainly hasn't done it for a long time though - years.
 

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Allegedly I have a bad timing phaser / variator which are attached to the cam and will require $14,500 in service to repair 1 of the 4 cam shafts. I'm talking with McLaren to get some assistance even though they are currently viewing this as a "low oil level" event which potentially damaged the return spring for the cam timing variator. They have denied a good faith repair request but they have been assisting in discovery with great vigilance, which I am appreciative of.
We have observed failing cam phasers on early production 12C's. We first noticed during an engine tear down and the cams did not return to a rest position. This failure would occur even with proper oil pressure.


Over the 5,000 mile usage my 12C has had 4 services and when the dealership metered the oil removed from the vehicle it was not low. I have no basis for why my low mile 12C has failed and thus no confidence it wont occur 3 more times. My issue was noticed on startup after washing the car.
What is interesting is that you mentioned the failure occurred after washing you car and the oil level was not low. The oil sending unit rests within the valley between the coolant thermostats (under the intake manifold). They are susceptible to submersion and will set off a fault. The replacement units come with a riser to keep the sending unit above any water line in that area.
 

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We have observed failing cam phasers on early production 12C's. We first noticed during an engine tear down and the cams did not return to a rest position. This failure would occur even with proper oil pressure
Very interesting Thad. Was the phaser problem you observed due to low spring tension and spring fail as Dahmanator described? Or some other reason? Also are you aware of any modifications improvement to the phaser design between the model years?
 

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Very interesting Thad. Was the phaser problem you observed due to low spring tension and spring fail as Dahmanator described? Or some other reason? Also are you aware of any modifications improvement to the phaser design between the model years?
Yes it appears that the springs wear and lose their tension. We split open a couple defective phaser to study them but did not have the luxury to split open the revised model. We are curious to see where the improvements were made.

A indication that a phaser is failing is that you may notice that it takes a couple more revolutions on the cranking cycle before the motor fires. Other possible symptoms are:
reduced performance
cam/crank position correlation fault
reduced fuel economy
 

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Yes it appears that the springs wear and lose their tension. We split open a couple defective phaser to study them but did not have the luxury to split open the revised model. We are curious to see where the improvements were made.

A indication that a phaser is failing is that you may notice that it takes a couple more revolutions on the cranking cycle before the motor fires. Other possible symptoms are:
reduced performance
cam/crank position correlation fault
reduced fuel economy
To be clear--Is the spring wear metal loss?
Or has the spring deformed? Both?
One being a lubricant problem, the other maybe an over rev or bad spring design choice for the highest revs.
 

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To be clear--Is the spring wear metal loss?
Or has the spring deformed? Both?
One being a lubricant problem, the other maybe an over rev or bad spring design choice for the highest revs.

No evidence of metal loss. The phaser was well lubricated internally and operated fairly well under oil pressure. There were no abnormal heat signatures on any of the internals. We could only conclude that spring fatigue was the primary cause of failure, which is why the cams didn't return to their rest position and the high revving nature of the engine is the culprit to this failure.

We have been testing our Hyper1200 car using the revised McL phasers for some time now. The phasers are holding up very well. We have taken the motor up to 9k RPM's and as high as 30psi. The powertrain has been pulled out 3 times already for thorough inspection from top end to the bottom end and all is within spec.
 

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Thad. Thank you for your confirmation of the phaser issue. I no longer feel like I'm crazy. Has McLaren acknowledged this issue openly with a service bulletin? I read through a bunch of them and didn't see it mentioned.
I havent seenor heard of any TSB on these phasers. I did ask around and I am told that they go bad on these cars and other cars. Probably same suppliers.

Dream
 

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Thad. Thank you for your confirmation of the phaser issue. I no longer feel like I'm crazy. Has McLaren acknowledged this issue openly with a service bulletin? I read through a bunch of them and didn't see it mentioned.
It has been revised. The early phasers are now superseded by a new part number with revised internals. There isn't an actual TSB but the servicing dealers are aware of the issue on the early 12C's.
 
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