you mean new engine, new gearbox, new tub, new cabling with the ethernet, new hybrid tech, new UI/UX, what could possible the issue trying to make all of that work...
Leiters interview with Evo, Focus on Quality at McLaren, Positive Outlook Moving Forward
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Leiters has put a BIG stake in the ground.....'we will not knowingly ship less than perfectly built product'....in Mclaren that is a BIG shoutout.
The regime leaders have never seen build integrity as the goal despite many employees' concern about 'quality'. Can Leiters deliver change, absolutely, but the path can be long.....especially as it will demand support and change from the myriad of component suppliers. The fact that a large number of employees know that change is needed will speed up the process.
Leiters couldn't care less what the previous management did or didn't do. He has his own goals and path. Bravo Leiters!
The regime leaders have never seen build integrity as the goal despite many employees' concern about 'quality'. Can Leiters deliver change, absolutely, but the path can be long.....especially as it will demand support and change from the myriad of component suppliers. The fact that a large number of employees know that change is needed will speed up the process.
Leiters couldn't care less what the previous management did or didn't do. He has his own goals and path. Bravo Leiters!
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This is the guy who screwed up Ferrari. Look at the Roma with most everything in the car controlled with these silly touch pads. Which work poorly. Now its in most of the new Ferrari's. I hope he does not do that to MClaren or my 720s will be the last MC I own.I am still trying to wrap my head around this...I know it is just talk - and the new CEO is well...new - but he is saying the RIGHT things in my humble opinion.
I personally hope these things all materialize...even most of them.
McLaren's next generation – new CEO Michael Leiters on his mission to reform the brand | Evo
We sit down with McLaren's new CEO Michael Leiters to find out how he plans to raise the brand's game -headtopics.com
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125 Posts
I see the comments and am more than a little surprised lol. McLaren is in shambles. They resisted the purchase of Audi (at least to get into the F1 program - with options to assist the automaker). They have had to give up most of their company and their head office to investors.
Worrying that he will make a Roma - which is not my favourite car either - but is also one of the best sellers they have - and it was their best year. Meanwhile - the Artura was released and is being re-built because it cannot compete. The build reputation - no matter how old and perhaps non-applicable as it is - plagues values of the brand and car.
He has the right idea. McLaren needs partnerships with established brands - that can help solve the quality, financial, and confidence problem McLaren suffers from today IMHO.
I don't care if they make an SUV or a sedan. Ferrari will do both. This is how they make enough money to keep their big ticket car programs going.
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I left Ferrari because aside from the dealers treating customers like crap, they make too many cars, exclusivity is gone, they came out with a station wagon and now a $500K crossover. Most of the buyers aren't car or driving enthusiasts anymore and couldn't execute trail braking or find an apex (or even have any idea what those terms mean). The cars are nothing more than another gold chain or LV bag to show off at dinner or brag to people that don't care about them.
McLaren designs, engineers and puts cars together for driving enthusiasts. They make sports cars for drivers. Their production numbers keep visibility to a minimum and I have never been treated less than a valued customer. The hybrid thing annoys me, but hopefully they can figure out a way to seek out more true enthusiasts and make it without whoring the brand with a station wagon or a truck.
McLaren designs, engineers and puts cars together for driving enthusiasts. They make sports cars for drivers. Their production numbers keep visibility to a minimum and I have never been treated less than a valued customer. The hybrid thing annoys me, but hopefully they can figure out a way to seek out more true enthusiasts and make it without whoring the brand with a station wagon or a truck.
Well put
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I don't think we can judge his entire career to-date by whether the Roma has touch pads that don't work well!
that station wagon is a brilliant GT car btw.
and that 500k crossover is sold out...
oh and they make money allowing them to make the other cars.
if you really care about trailbraking and finding an apex great and kudos, but maybe just get a race car and drive road cars on the road...
mclaren Senna - still the least shit road car i have driven on track
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Again...we are talking about the brand - as an automaker - surviving. If McLaren Automotive is able to survive - and their best cars continue to get made - and made better (quality) then they are today - improving their reputation and outperforming the competition - but they need to make an SUV in order to do it? Go for it. The hybrid thing that annoys you - is everywhere - because there is a legislative emissions requirement by 2030. Every manufacturer is on that path. This "whoring of the brand" - creating business and income for the company - allows the real cars to be made. If not - there isn't going to be a McLaren Automotive.
Oh my goodness...thank-you.
Thank-you again.that station wagon is a brilliant GT car btw.
and that 500k crossover is sold out...
oh and they make money allowing them to make the other cars.
if you really care about trailbraking and finding an apex great and kudos, but maybe just get a race car and drive road cars on the road...
mclaren Senna - still the least shit road car i have driven on track
I get it - we all want "hardcore enthusiasts cars!" but business is a real thing. The car maker isn't doing well. EVERYONE is adapting. Financing the main goal of quality enthusiast cars is the focus - but yes - in order to finance these amazing cars - costs money. Everyone wants a hard core enthusiasts only car maker (and every car manufacturer has their hard core fanbase). But making the cars with better Q&A is also critical - so the company thrives versus falters. Everyone loves the cars - the reputation - not so much (even though it is mostly recycled internet sound bites). Beyond their actual headquarters which they now rent - McLaren is selling their historical - classic cars to finance the Artura (because there are significant issues) - that isn't a sign of a healthy, cash flush business.
Again surprised about most of the responses here.
@ZombiePhysicist maybe you can merge the threads?
www.mclarenlife.com
Leiters interview with Evo, Focus on Quality at McLaren...
Nothing new, at least for some of us, but at least reminds that he is moving the company in the right direction...
www.mclarenlife.com
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Yes I know ... that's why I said he might have a longer job doing this than he thinks ... Gorilla Glass, weak windshields, accumulators, P1 battery assembly, coolant leakage bc of clips etc were all design issues and not assembly issues ...
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125 Posts
I thank-you for merging this thread. The responses here are much more what I expected. I thought I was taking crazy pills for a moment there with some of the responses I received.
I have no issues with other cars I personally may not buy - helping to ensure the company has money to research and develop the cars I do want to buy - and drive.
I have no issues with other cars I personally may not buy - helping to ensure the company has money to research and develop the cars I do want to buy - and drive.
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98 Posts
This gets to be interesting because Ferrari sort of shifted price points up significantly, and dropped a new product between where the Super series and Ultimate series would be. So should Mclaren aim the 720S replacement squarely at the 296 GTB (and the Huracan replacement)? Should the 720S replacement make a big jump in price to compete more directly with the 296? Should it be aiming to compete with the SF90 (which would be an even bigger price jump)?
Or, should McLaren create another model above the 720S replacement to compete with the quasi hypercars like the SF90 and Valhalla for $500-750k?
I'd prefer to keep the V8TT in the Super series to differentiate a bit more from the Artura but I wouldn't kick a sufficiently powerful and engaging V6TT out of bed. With the coming P1 successor I think creating a quasi hypercar might not make sense in the near term. And for profitability's sake, a SUV/crossover makes more sense to spend resources on.
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that the 720s successor should be a quasi hypercar by todays standards from all its stats is clear (950hp 1450kg and aero at least on 765LT lvl in the base version should be set ) ... that somehow makes the P2 need to have 1200+hp similar weight and some way more exotic aero) ...
Price lvl they cannot move up much or will price themselves out of the market ... 350-380k base is maximum from what I think... so most will be around 420-500 ... thats the maximum the market will support for a car with about 5500-8000 copies ...
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Yeah the 720S successor will certainly have otherworldly performance if McLaren performance trends hold true. I agree that McLaren can't jump up too far in price otherwise they'll price themselves out. I think McLaren may need to stick close to where the 296 GTB's base price is. Even if the Mac comes with a lot more standard features and reasonably priced options, I don't think it would be good to have a base price much higher than the Ferrari.
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if it is V8TT Hybrid they can price a bit higher ... say 45-65k more than the 296GTB base ... but still below SF90 /Aventador 2
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I remember your comment from my original thread before it was merged. You are concerned about touch pads - which work poorly according to you. I am worried about the future of the brand. The Roma - is their best selling car. That produces income for the brand - so they can make awesome cars - for car enthusiasts. As a business owner - I clearly understand this logic. I don't care if McLaren builds 5 SUVs and 3 sedans - as long as they can continue to build exciting cars that I want to drive - and these cars have strong build quality and the good reputation of a well-built product. If you disagree and it is the last McLaren you own - it is lucky there are other brands for you to migrate to.
^ Absolute - YES - to your comment!
I agree that MOST of it is talk - and time will tell. That said - the recall of the Artura AND the classic McLaren cars being put on auction - in order to raise funds to make it a better car - being fair - IS action. And it is the most action we as owners has seen since the company was formed in 2012 IMHO.
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Apparently McLaren is looking to raise prices and become a more "elite" brand. I am more interested in them improving their (I feel mostly unfair) reputation. This is good for the company and owners.
This is a great point. Ferrari is working from Porsche's book and making each car its own entity. For most brands including McLaren and Porsche - every car "had its place". With the GT4/GT4RS for example - getting the GT3
engine threw that "place" out the window. the 296GTB is quicker and faster than the current 720S. The Artura - with its 94 HP electric assist (and almost why bother power output) - was SORELY underpowered. Mac was hoping no one would compare them - but how could they not? Also - Mac for whatever reason was still concerned about the 720S and upcoming 750S refresh...That, to me, was a massive mistake. They needed to make the Artura their priority and a massive hit. Worry about the 720S successor later - and definitely do not worry about the 750S - as much as I obviously love those cars - they are not your future. As to the V8 vs V6 - this is a tough one. ALL car manufacturers are shifting to small displacement hybrids. This gen of AMG C63 and E63 cars are four and 6 cylinder respectively. With the 2030 mandate for increased fuel economy/reduced emissions - these businesses have to make way and design these cars now. I of course would prefer they keep the V8 - and I think the 720S successor will likely do so.
The HP war may slow as driving dynamics get lost - and they become one trick ponies. Price - this is interesting. It seems there are many wealthy people about as higher priced, popular, exotic cars are all allocated and spoken for. I did my own research into the volume of cars for the 720S - including Spiders and arrived at about 7K. That number is quite low when even compared to the 458 (15K). With higher prices - less can be made as well - which would increase scarcity and overall value for the consumer (at least potentiall). With EV/hybrid being the near future - I think NA and ealrier ICE cars will continue to appreciate IMHO.
I think the Artura should stay in the 296GTB range. Giving the car more electric power - is not a major change. Another 100 HP of torque fill/instant torque will wake that car up and make it a completely different driving experience IMHO.
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