Leiters interview with Evo, Focus on Quality at McLaren, Positive Outlook Moving Forward

Topcarbon said:

Oh GOD! NOOOOOOOOOOO!

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I see the comments and am more than a little surprised lol. McLaren is in shambles. They resisted the purchase of Audi (at least to get into the F1 program - with options to assist the automaker). They have had to give up most of their company and their head office to investors.

Worrying that he will make a Roma - which is not my favourite car either - but is also one of the best sellers they have - and it was their best year. Meanwhile - the Artura was released and is being re-built because it cannot compete. The build reputation - no matter how old and perhaps non-applicable as it is - plagues values of the brand and car.

He has the right idea. McLaren needs partnerships with established brands - that can help solve the quality, financial, and confidence problem McLaren suffers from today IMHO.

I don't care if they make an SUV or a sedan. Ferrari will do both. This is how they make enough money to keep their big ticket car programs going.

Ingenere said:

I left Ferrari because aside from the dealers treating customers like crap, they make too many cars, exclusivity is gone, they came out with a station wagon and now a $500K crossover. Most of the buyers aren't car or driving enthusiasts anymore and couldn't execute trail braking or find an apex (or even have any idea what those terms mean). The cars are nothing more than another gold chain or LV bag to show off at dinner or brag to people that don't care about them.

McLaren designs, engineers and puts cars together for driving enthusiasts. They make sports cars for drivers. Their production numbers keep visibility to a minimum and I have never been treated less than a valued customer. The hybrid thing annoys me, but hopefully they can figure out a way to seek out more true enthusiasts and make it without whoring the brand with a station wagon or a truck.

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Again...we are talking about the brand - as an automaker - surviving. If McLaren Automotive is able to survive - and their best cars continue to get made - and made better (quality) then they are today - improving their reputation and outperforming the competition - but they need to make an SUV in order to do it? Go for it. The hybrid thing that annoys you - is everywhere - because there is a legislative emissions requirement by 2030. Every manufacturer is on that path. This "whoring of the brand" - creating business and income for the company - allows the real cars to be made. If not - there isn't going to be a McLaren Automotive.

New Britain said:

I don't think we can judge his entire career to-date by whether the Roma has touch pads that don't work well!

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Oh my goodness...thank-you.

A West said:

that station wagon is a brilliant GT car btw.
and that 500k crossover is sold out...
oh and they make money allowing them to make the other cars.
if you really care about trailbraking and finding an apex great and kudos, but maybe just get a race car and drive road cars on the road...
mclaren Senna - still the least shit road car i have driven on track

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Thank-you again.

I get it - we all want "hardcore enthusiasts cars!" but business is a real thing. The car maker isn't doing well. EVERYONE is adapting. Financing the main goal of quality enthusiast cars is the focus - but yes - in order to finance these amazing cars - costs money. Everyone wants a hard core enthusiasts only car maker (and every car manufacturer has their hard core fanbase). But making the cars with better Q&A is also critical - so the company thrives versus falters. Everyone loves the cars - the reputation - not so much (even though it is mostly recycled internet sound bites). Beyond their actual headquarters which they now rent - McLaren is selling their historical - classic cars to finance the Artura (because there are significant issues) - that isn't a sign of a healthy, cash flush business.

Again surprised about most of the responses here.

exotic599 said:

This is the guy who screwed up Ferrari. Look at the Roma with most everything in the car controlled with these silly touch pads. Which work poorly. Now its in most of the new Ferrari's. I hope he does not do that to MClaren or my 720s will be the last MC I own.

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I remember your comment from my original thread before it was merged. You are concerned about touch pads - which work poorly according to you. I am worried about the future of the brand. The Roma - is their best selling car. That produces income for the brand - so they can make awesome cars - for car enthusiasts. As a business owner - I clearly understand this logic. I don't care if McLaren builds 5 SUVs and 3 sedans - as long as they can continue to build exciting cars that I want to drive - and these cars have strong build quality and the good reputation of a well-built product. If you disagree and it is the last McLaren you own - it is lucky there are other brands for you to migrate to.

roundincircles said:

Leiters has put a BIG stake in the ground.....'we will not knowingly ship less than perfectly built product'....in Mclaren that is a BIG shoutout.

The regime leaders have never seen build integrity as the goal despite many employees' concern about 'quality'. Can Leiters deliver change, absolutely, but the path can be long.....especially as it will demand support and change from the myriad of component suppliers. The fact that a large number of employees know that change is needed will speed up the process.

Leiters couldn't care less what the previous management did or didn't do. He has his own goals and path. Bravo Leiters!

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^ Absolute - YES - to your comment!

Michaelj said:

Good interview and he is saying all the right things. Let’s hope they can continue making great cars. I’m a fan - it’s better than the competition. Hope it lasts!

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I agree that MOST of it is talk - and time will tell. That said - the recall of the Artura AND the classic McLaren cars being put on auction - in order to raise funds to make it a better car - being fair - IS action. And it is the most action we as owners has seen since the company was formed in 2012 IMHO.

ChrisK1982 said:

if it is V8TT Hybrid they can price a bit higher ... say 45-65k more than the 296GTB base ... but still below SF90 /Aventador 2

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Apparently McLaren is looking to raise prices and become a more "elite" brand. I am more interested in them improving their (I feel mostly unfair) reputation. This is good for the company and owners.

GVIrish said:

This gets to be interesting because Ferrari sort of shifted price points up significantly, and dropped a new product between where the Super series and Ultimate series would be. So should Mclaren aim the 720S replacement squarely at the 296 GTB (and the Huracan replacement)? Should the 720S replacement make a big jump in price to compete more directly with the 296? Should it be aiming to compete with the SF90 (which would be an even bigger price jump)?

Or, should McLaren create another model above the 720S replacement to compete with the quasi hypercars like the SF90 and Valhalla for $500-750k?

I'd prefer to keep the V8TT in the Super series to differentiate a bit more from the Artura but I wouldn't kick a sufficiently powerful and engaging V6TT out of bed. With the coming P1 successor I think creating a quasi hypercar might not make sense in the near term. And for profitability's sake, a SUV/crossover makes more sense to spend resources on.

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This is a great point. Ferrari is working from Porsche's book and making each car its own entity. For most brands including McLaren and Porsche - every car "had its place". With the GT4/GT4RS for example - getting the GT3
engine threw that "place" out the window. the 296GTB is quicker and faster than the current 720S. The Artura - with its 94 HP electric assist (and almost why bother power output) - was SORELY underpowered. Mac was hoping no one would compare them - but how could they not? Also - Mac for whatever reason was still concerned about the 720S and upcoming 750S refresh...That, to me, was a massive mistake. They needed to make the Artura their priority and a massive hit. Worry about the 720S successor later - and definitely do not worry about the 750S - as much as I obviously love those cars - they are not your future. As to the V8 vs V6 - this is a tough one. ALL car manufacturers are shifting to small displacement hybrids. This gen of AMG C63 and E63 cars are four and 6 cylinder respectively. With the 2030 mandate for increased fuel economy/reduced emissions - these businesses have to make way and design these cars now. I of course would prefer they keep the V8 - and I think the 720S successor will likely do so.

ChrisK1982 said:

that the 720s successor should be a quasi hypercar by todays standards from all its stats is clear (950hp 1450kg and aero at least on 765LT lvl in the base version should be set ) ... that somehow makes the P2 need to have 1200+hp similar weight and some way more exotic aero) ...

Price lvl they cannot move up much or will price themselves out of the market ... 350-380k base is maximum from what I think... so most will be around 420-500 ... thats the maximum the market will support for a car with about 5500-8000 copies ...

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The HP war may slow as driving dynamics get lost - and they become one trick ponies. Price - this is interesting. It seems there are many wealthy people about as higher priced, popular, exotic cars are all allocated and spoken for. I did my own research into the volume of cars for the 720S - including Spiders and arrived at about 7K. That number is quite low when even compared to the 458 (15K). With higher prices - less can be made as well - which would increase scarcity and overall value for the consumer (at least potentiall). With EV/hybrid being the near future - I think NA and ealrier ICE cars will continue to appreciate IMHO.

GVIrish said:

Yeah the 720S successor will certainly have otherworldly performance if McLaren performance trends hold true. I agree that McLaren can't jump up too far in price otherwise they'll price themselves out. I think McLaren may need to stick close to where the 296 GTB's base price is. Even if the Mac comes with a lot more standard features and reasonably priced options, I don't think it would be good to have a base price much higher than the Ferrari.

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I think the Artura should stay in the 296GTB range. Giving the car more electric power - is not a major change. Another 100 HP of torque fill/instant torque will wake that car up and make it a completely different driving experience IMHO.

Ingenere said:

I left Ferrari because aside from the dealers treating customers like crap, they make too many cars, exclusivity is gone, they came out with a station wagon and now a $500K crossover. Most of the buyers aren't car or driving enthusiasts anymore and couldn't execute trail braking or find an apex (or even have any idea what those terms mean). The cars are nothing more than another gold chain or LV bag to show off at dinner or brag to people that don't care about them.

McLaren designs, engineers and puts cars together for driving enthusiasts. They make sports cars for drivers. Their production numbers keep visibility to a minimum and I have never been treated less than a valued customer. The hybrid thing annoys me, but hopefully they can figure out a way to seek out more true enthusiasts and make it without whoring the brand with a station wagon or a truck.

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My same response goes to you. Going out of business or making an SUV/sedan/cross-over - and being able to make the cars I love to drive and race - I will take the latter. I know everyone is different - but I don't care about exclusivity as I am a car enthusiast. Status means nothing to me. I just want to own awesome, amazing performance cars. Also - as long as the cars I enjoy aren't a dime a dozen - what difference does it make? Strangely you talk about exclusivity being gone and then car enthusiasm and trail braking - within two sentences. About people buying cars for show. Hybrid may annoy you - but it is here to stay. Hang onto your ICE cars for future value. And we agree on one thing; McLaren builds cars for enthusiasts. Strong - performing cars. They are a business however - and reputation of build quality and the amount of money they make so they can make more outstanding cars - is more critical IMHO.

ChrisK1982 said:

that will price them out of the market - simple as that McLaren on equal tiers is already priced close to Ferrari, which is a much stronger brand in the public eye



The Artura is not the 296GTB competition but the 570/600LT replacement - which was also not the 488/F8 competition ... Luckily its 80k cheaper so they are not in exactly same market ...





the different brands cars are not measured individually but against each other - for a new McL in this segment to sell it MUST beat the SF90 values while being still financially in reach for the ppl who wanna buy it. that are 70-80% current owners and maybe 30-20% new owners ... McLaren needs to make cars for ppl who buy them and their willingness to pay more for unlimited supercars - also given the different market offerings - is limited

regarding the hypercars you are more or less talking about a club of 600 - 800 ppl around the world who all own one or several McL hypercars ... I don't know of many persons who only got a p1 or Senna ... most had both ... some have the other McL hovers too as well or more than one Senna ... given the ppl who owned more than one Senna I would say McL only had about about 440 individual ppl they
sold the Senna to ... that is not a lot of ppl and they ppl won't each buy a new hypercar every 1-2 years so more exclusive does not work well ...

Again McL is NOT Ferrari who can just announce a new LE car and its sold out before being shown - Ferraris VIP target audience at 2000-3500 ppl is much wider ...





the drivetrain/torque IS already the problem ... this will delay the car even further and make it more costly

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TO your first point - you are correct. That said - it is a risk they have to take from a perception point of view. That takes time to work into the Public. Again though - my point is about improving quality - so I would prefer they focus on that.

For point 2 - speaking about perception...the Artura IS the 296GTB competitor - not because they are both V6 FI hybrids - that same out around the exact same time - but because the Public and magazine reviewers say so. In so many ways - how could they not be? Another problem is Mac themselves stated that there is no Sport series anymore. So they themselves have elevated the Artura to be a competitor to the 296GTB. They simply powered it like a Sport series - while Ferrari went all out to make the 296GTB a success (which it is) which is the problem for Mac. You are right - and I agree price point helps the Artura - but not if it is getting destroyed by the competition performance wise. Macs are known for their performance - always quicker than the competition.

For point 3 - we are mostly in alignment - more performance bang for the dollar - definitely not SF90 money. So far - with the Artura - it is a fail. BUT - to my point in creating this thread - they are working on it. We also agree on too many hypercars. The audience is small. 720 replacement and the Artura have to be the meat and potatoes for McLaren - which is why they have to be done right. I do think McLarens fanbase is getting bigger however. Not even close to Ferrari yet though - I agree.

For your final point - not if they fix the root cause/core issue. Adding EV assist/torque fill is done everyday and it is done well by other manufacturers (Ferrari for example). McLaren need to get their heads around this technology - because every car they build going forward is going to use it/depend upon it. add another 100 HP to the EV component and maybe another 20-50 HP with the FI engine tune (and maybe work on a better exhaust note) and you are right with the 296GTB IMHO.

ChrisK1982 said:

point 2 a GT4rs also gets destroyed by a GT3rs and the price difference is smaller, most ppl see the 296GTB as successor to the F8 and the Artura as successor to the 570s ... the problem is many ppl made something out of the Artura which it is not: a hybrid Super Series as the successor to the 720s which it is not ... bc ppl wanted it to be on the same lvl than the 720s now its tested against cars that are on 720s lvl ... making the Artura look worse than it is ... additionally its a base model which was tested against a 296GTB AF in race trim ... its a joke and ppl are falling for it ...


point 4: too much torque already caused the 12-18 months delay ... you would need another drivetrain for 100hp more ... also than you need to price it higher (750s lvl) it won't work with this platform on stage1 bc that is probably what the LT of the Artura will be

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Again to point 1 - Mclaren themselves stated no more 570S or successors at that level. I do agree with you that this is what McLaren created - so they have created a conundrum for themselves. And Ferrari did the Checkmate. Because the setup is so similar - again - it is difficult not to compare them - and every magazine and Youtube channel is.

Point four - there isn't enough torque for a torque problem - that is just a bad design on McLarens part - the Artura makes 500 lb ft. And this is why I am saying they need to fix the root issues. If Tesla can build a trans that handles 1050 lb feet of torque - then McLaren can at least build a DCT that SF90 lvl torque - 590 lb ft. 296GTB - 546. Plus torque fill is not just raw torque - I am talking about upping the HP - to 150+ (296GTB is 165) - and get another 25-50 from the FI setup via tune. Gets the Artura close to 800 HP and with it being lighter - should be very close. Tune costs nothing - and upping EV output should not be a huge adjustment.