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Learning Manual Paddle Shifting is Stressful

10K views 77 replies 23 participants last post by  roundincircles 
#1 ·
So I'm forcing myself to always be in manual mode, in NYC, and as comfy and easy as the car is, it's like learning to drive a manual when I was a teenager (contrary to popular belief, I'm no longer a teenager, at least physically :)

Anyway, is anyone else coming from driving manual all their life and trying to master and intuition with the manual paddles? Part of the intracacy is learning what is the "right" gear to be in. 7 is ridiculous. This car probably only needs 3! I'm starting to get a feel for the more high wound gears. 5th is a sweet spot for high speed passing. 6 still pulls too, albeit not as immediate. 4th is insane vision blurring.

Anyway, one thing I notice is when you're stuck in traffic, the car does not want to shift from 1st up to 2nd unless you hit about 2000rpms, but then is perfectly willing to go just as slow crawling in traffic in 2nd. Which makes no sense. Anyone else notice this. I think this could be tuned in a software update. The car has enough torque for me probably to start it in 5th! so I should be able to kick it to 2nd even at low rpms to keep it from being so jumpy. I think this gets to the 458 having better immediacy/shifting at low speed perception.

The car certainly lets me make bad decisions (which is a good thing). For example, letting me shift down to 1st at 45mph and hearing the wail. The more mistakes the car lets you make, the more immediate it will feel.

Right now the 2nd gear lockout at low speed is the only time I seem not to be able to get the gear I want. This is with suspension in normal, and power in sport/manual mode.

Anyhow, after a bunch driving and learning to shift I come out of the car smiling like an idiot, but with sweat down my back from all the focus!

Weirdly, at high speed the thing is already wired into my brain. Haven't quite got pre-cog wired in, but the car just wants to "cruise" at 100-110mph. This is not good for my long term driving privileges! :) Worse still, even when you're going by other traffic at these speeds, it just doesn't seem that fast. Is insane. Going in other cars at this speed, you just feel the speed so much more, but the Mac lets you go so much further out before you start feeling the need to focus.

Car is so good I want to lick it after every drive. Crazy f'n car! :)
 
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#3 ·
John,that was an interesting read,funny how we all have our own aims and preferences,not sure if its a regional difference,but I have only ever had manual cars and took to the paddle shift like a duck to water,to me the pre-cog was a natural progression from a normal sports manual,rather than on/off norm of a dual clutch and I only ever use auto on a motorway cruise,i agree with much of what you say,but for me I never use 1st,but find my balastic gear is 3rd,,when not in the city confines,i use the box to keep the engine singing at 5 to 8.5k revs,when I can,but then you have to have your eyes out on stalks !!:)
 
#4 ·
I'm boring. I keep the revs low, generally. But you're right. 3 screams so hard I'm afraid it
Will shatter glass. I cannot fathom "more drama."

I'm going to set the engine noise setting down next drive.

I was worried it would be boring. I'm happy that its far from the case. It requires a good bit of deftness to drive the car really well. The reality is, it probably drives itself better in full auto mode than I do now. But I love the ability to be a newbie again. And am getting a good feel for it and plan to kick butt over time.

Thanks Andy, glad to hear I'm not alone! :)
 
#6 ·
I always drive mine on the road in "sport" manual and love it, the pre-cog is so much fun when you get the hang of it. When tracking I use manual too, but tend to hit the rev limiter a lot, so at a track day yesterday I ran it in "auto" for a change. A dealer told me that he thought the car is actually quicker round a track when in auto, but I noticed that it sometimes took a little too long to find the appropriate exit gear when steaming into a tight corner. What do you other track monsters think?
 
#9 ·
Hey Texas. Noticed you have/had the ford gt. I always loved how that car looked. How do you like it? I've heard that the front end might experience lift at high speed and get unstable. A friend of a friend died in one. Ended up over a guard rail in a tree. Heard of one similar story, but not clear to me as to the cause. Often easier and more likely attributed to driver error.

I've seen some reviews of people tracking it and it seemed like a handful, but the drivers were near euphoric in describing how they enjoyed it. Don't understand why ford stopped making it, but that makes it all the more special.

Have a soft spot for that car. A bit like the NSX, a dream car I always lusted for but couldn't swing at the time.
 
#10 ·
Around town (Power in track/Handling in sport) ...... I never get out of 2nd gear (manual mode)..... I like keeping the revs up, and being ready to punch it! The automatic mode is too wishy-washy for my taste.
And, jkheit ..... That upcoming NSX is looking pretty damn cool. It's on my radar screen for the future; Especially if my Mc dealership keeps pissing me off with the sour-ass attitude they exude!
 
#15 ·
I can only imagine your fuel consumption. My range is crap. I keep thinking I'm driving it well/economically, but I just went through 176miles on 13 gallons. Not exactly great. I'm fearing if I kept it in 2nd I'd get 5mpg. Granted, they're very fun MPG. :)

I wonder if the car gets more efficient with time/break in? I've just hit 750miles, so I'm past the official break-in period.

Ug. Sorry to hear re: shitty attitude dealer. It makes a world of difference. The Phili Mac dealer in the states is amazing. The one in Palo Alto not nearly as good. I avoided the ferrari dealer in Manhattan for similar reasons.

I'm not fully in love with the new NSX yet. I've been watching it very eagerly. I loved the original Acura HSC they had in pretty final form to replace the original NSX:

http://wikicars.org/en/Acura_HSC_Concept

I've learned through some apocryphal lore that the original designers the HSC were poached by Ferrari, and why the 458 has more than a passing resemblance to the HSC, which predates it!

HSC was midengine, and I think it might have been set up for a 10cylinder engine. So compared to the HSC, I'm a bit muted on the current design. That said, it still looks very nice. I'm eager to see what they actually release. Their sights are the 911 turbo, 458 and Mac, so they're shooting for the right ball park! :)
 
#11 ·
Haha love your enthusiasm jk

I spend most time in sport/sport manual. This also stiffens up the dive and reduces risk of a chin scrape. Some of us are using norm/norm to warm the engine up but I think cold lugging is worse than revving.

Paddles seem intuitive but I rarely drove manuals growing up. (Past issues: On the Gallardo people famously activate the windshield wiper while shifting. And not liking the 12C paddles on the wheel, better on column.) What's really non intuitive is the race guys punching the left side forward with their thumbs to upshift. Easy to get mixed up then. Apparently precog irrelevant to them.

I'm not learning left foot braking. Too risky. You?
 
#14 ·
I'll eventually give the left foot thing a try, but right now I can't seem to park without road rashing my rims on a curb! :)

I do like the rocker. But I can see why some might not like it. As for stationary vs moving with the wheel, I think you may be right. When turning in tight and wanting to shift, it can be challenging. Although you would need huge stationary paddles.

I'm going to try stepping up to sport/sport manual. I keep it soft around NYC. Makes it less of a rodeo. But once outside the city, I think you guys are right.
 
#18 ·
JK--great post. I've become a little lazy driving in and out of NYC I tend to let the car do the work. I tend to only hit the paddles on an as needed basis. But you've reminded me to be more active, so thanks.

BTW, I'm pretty sure the reported MPG from the dash is based on imperial gallons. Anytime I've checked the math, it doesn't work on US gallons, but is close with UK.
 
#19 ·
I actually leave it most of the time in soort sport auto and play with the flippers. Depending on my mood I still do like a manual and ability to throw the rear around. The fgt is my only remaining manual. They don't make any more supercars with manuals and the only alternative is muscle cars like gt500 or. Camaro zl1. A petty!!
 
#23 ·
Im really confused as to this whole pre-cog thing...... what is pre cog? Mine is a 2012 with the update. I love manual and drive it in manual whenever I have the chance but never understood what pre cog is or if my car even has it or not. Would love someone to shed some light on this :)
 
#24 · (Edited)
What it does, is it tell the shift computer to either load a higher gear, or a lower gear, regardless of throttle %. With new paddles, get used to how much distance is required to get to the click / shift. Then say you are in 2nd gear, and want the quickest upshift possible, and say 25 to 50% throttle, pull the right paddle a little bit, hold for a second, then pull the rest of the way. You should feel the transmission shift quicker than if you just pull the paddle all the way. Kind of fun to play around with. Downshifts IMO with the newer paddles are not affected that much be pre-cogging.

I even notice a quicker shift on full throttle, but it could be in my mind. The old paddles required more travel before the click, so pre- cogging was a little easier.
 
#29 ·
I can concur that the Auto mode is amazing on track and I have used it myself for a few laps. It's very good for learning a track, obviously, but also not a bad exercise on tracks you know well. For example, you might have a preconceived idea of which gear you need on corner exit and therefore overslow the car on entry. The Auto mode won't give you that gear unless you absolutely need it, so in some cases you may realize that you can carry more speed in a higher gear. Plus it shifts perfectly in the power band every single time under WOT, which if I'm honest, I cannot say for myself. It's worth a try for a few laps, even if just to see how amazing a job they did with it.
 
#35 ·
I did watch video, guess I like being armchair Schumacher too much.
 
#37 · (Edited)
6th is right. CVT's were on there way to becoming the norm in F1. Far more efficient then the current semi-auto gear boxes (also far more compact, lighter, less parts). Unfortunately, the FIA put a stop to it pretty quickly. If you read the FIA regs, they now mandate that there must be a 'step' between gears. I've seen other videos of that Williams doing laps and it certainly sounded bizarre but fascinating at the same time.
1993 saw the most technically advanced F1 cars ever, but then Max Mosely showed up...
 
#41 · (Edited)
The new Mini was available with one when it was first introduced and I believe Subaru may have offered it on one of its' cars long ago.
I drove the Mini CVT years ago at a Mini test drive day and too me it felt like a regular automatic. I could feel it step down and hunt around for gears. I don't think Mini's version was very good.
 
#52 ·
agreed... I do however wonder why cvt never became mainstream outside of racing? didn't ford put a cvt on the market some years ago? I understand why they banned it in racing, but am intrigued why it wasn't a success commercially... it seems to tick all the boxes?
 
#53 ·
Dunno. I don't know much about CVTs, although I believe Nissan offers it on a few models today. It seemed when it was first making a splash for road cars, years ago, many considered it too much of a departure from customer expectation (i.e. sound, involvement, etc.) to ever become mainstream. I imagine there were other less publicized disadvantages?

p.s. I'm not necessarily saying an advanced CVT is what we'd have today. It would have been really interesting to see where the Fo1 engineers would have taken that, though.
 
#59 ·
So true. How times change. It wasn't so long ago that automatic gearboxes were just considered pure shite for performance. Remember when the manual (4 speed even!) gearbox versions of cars were always like 0.5 to 1.0 seconds faster to 60 mph than the automatic versions? Now all the supercars have auto boxes and the fastest possible accel is achieved in Auto mode (i.e. launch control) where the first 4 gears are pre-selected and clutches overlapped. Even just the instruction to shift via manual pull of a paddle is considered precious time lost! :eek:

Not to go off on another tangent, but I read the new MB S-Class has active suspension that uses a fwd facing camera on the rear-view mirror to read the road surface ahead and adjusts damping to suit. Guess they got tired of everybody saying the 12C rides like an S-Class!
 
#61 ·
Wonder how the camera reacts to a Hedgehog in the road?

It would upset the Tree-huggers if it kept the ride flat so the occupants are oblivious to the cruel fate of the HH.
 
#65 ·
I love these threads...

On CVTs, I have some experience with them in snowmobiles. I have enjoyed blasting down trails at unsafe speeds on them for almost 3 decades. They are responsive and in a 2cycle application where one needs to "stay on the pipe" they are unbelievable. On the other hand I bought some dodge calibers with CVTs for some workers. To say they suck is an understatement of galactic proportions. ATVs and buggys use them as well. But for simplicity's sake.

On the precog...

If our beloved 12Cs are used in auto mode, does the module "precog" every gear change? After all, it knows what it's going to do next. Even lifting would be valuable input to the module that it will be making a downshift.

Remember, quick lifting will kick in the "Pre-brake" function and close the gap between the pads and the rotors.

In my most humble opinion, I don't think there are many humans that can wring more performance out of one of these gearboxes than a fast, well programmed processor.
 
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