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I borrowed a 991 turbo S for the day and its faster on the road than my 12C Spider. So much more torque. The P13 will need outputs not much below the 12C to compete.
Wow, this is kind of surprising. I imagine that the tS will beat the 12C to 60, but I would have thought after that the 12C should/would take. In the turns, it depends. On longer/faster turns, I'd think the 12C should take. On super tight turns, the all wheel drive and steer should help the tS take. But quarter of a mile+, I would think the 12C would be faster.

Could you elaborate on what you mean it's faster on the road. Just outright faster, or like 0-60 launches on the streets?

Thanks Pete
 

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I think we could be getting ahead of the game plan. Firstly, there are a number of 911 models and Turbo derivatives developed over many years........you can pay nearly £180k for a 911 Turbo.

So which 911 is the P13 pitched at? There are Turbo, Turbo S, Turbo S with performance upgrades.The first P13 model will be pitched at which 911, will there be P13 derivative in coming years?

I will wager that Woking will spring a performance/price point package that will surprise........a combination of chassis, suspension tech and weight . Remember the MP12 can move ahead in price and or performance to leave room for the P13.

I know nothing other than Mclaren have the advantage of coming to market late........they are unlikely to launch a dud performance wise.......that's A to B performance with corners on the way to B.
 

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Great discussion going on above. Some curiosities that oft float around in my noggin'...

- where the base 12C was ~$250k (USD), and w/ updates it established itself easily a notch above the 458, it could've been priced at ~$300k w/ presumably the same sales voulume (I believe). However, new market entrant & the need to price itself properly were obvious concerns. The carbon-tub, F1-derived suspension, factory updates, etc. could've warranted that premium (over a 458) from the outset, w/ proper marketing & the upgrade(s) from the get-go.

- a novel position along the 911 range for the P13 could be as follows: price it ~50% above the base/as-equipped 911 (non turbo motifs), yet give it at/near turbo-models'like performance.

* Stateside, that would mean a ~$105k base 911 C4S (which would be ~$135k moderately equipped) to a ~$150k base-Turbo / ~$180 base-Turbo-S (add additional ~$30k to "build" per options to each).

* P13 coming in at $135k-starting, being "as-equipped" for ~$160k, offering comparable Turbo/Turbo-S performance, but also the carbon-tub & F1-derived suspension advantages in handling, would seem to be apt!

Who knows, may be the P13 may have some electric-assist (at the axle or adjunct to the motor) & not need the large HP output that's expected nowadays...
 

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I'm sure Mclaren would acknowledge that the starting market price for the 12C was too high...........in their defence it was set by Ferrari when they moved the 458 up from the £130k previous model to create room for the California. Plus no one foresaw the credit crisis coming at a speed like an Exocet missile.

So the current wisdom is that a £120k price point plus £20k or so for paint, Doris and carbon trinkets will attract demand beyond supply a la the Adam Smith model from, was it the 17th Century?

The questions remains , what performance envelope is appropriate and what is the definition of performance?

Still think the 12C will move ahead and the P13 will be close to the current 12C , just a smidgen or two behind.........Porsche can make good business with a mega Spec 911T performance pack close to the 12C price plus a standard Turbo at £120k with paint and bits.

Remember there are better Turbos, better suspension, direct injection and a racier Doris waiting in the back of the development shed.Plus some tech that we know nothing about!

I know nothing other than incremental performance increase is the name of the game......oh, and returning some shareholder value and management incentive. Trust in Mclaren.......Porsche and Ferrari are responding and they know what they are doing!
 

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I think the market will dictate a starting price in that 135-150k USD range.

I don't know if there is official guidance from Honda on what the new NSX will start off at price-wise, but the speculation has it in that range as well. What Honda has said is that they expect the NSX to provide 458 like performance for a 911 price. The issue (benefit really for the manufacturer) is that, as mentioned a few times, the 911 price range goes from just under 100k to just over 200k.

I think (and I don't have time to check) the v10 Audi R8 also starts in that 135-150k range as well.

With all of these cars, following the model Porsche has perfected, the "price of admission" is often times just the first step in the options-extravaganza that quickly adds mightily to the final price paid. So, as Osiris mentioned above, it wouldn't surprise me to see the P13 start between 135-150k but that options could quickly add on up to an additional 30k.

-nh4.
 

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McLaren is doing an incredible job. 12C is world-beating. P1 looks to be Universe-beating. All this on a clean sheet platform, from a company with about 1000 employees (I think that is close to accurate number?). They are taking on the big boys and kicking a$$. Can't wait to see the P13. What is scary is how incredible the cars will be in several years when the economy is on a bull run and the profits are flowing back into R&D. Ferrari and Porsche are going to have to change their way of thinking on some things, or else expect to play second fiddle. Lambo, well sheet, does Lambo even make cars any more?
 

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McLaren is doing an incredible job. 12C is world-beating. P1 looks to be Universe-beating. All this on a clean sheet platform, from a company with about 1000 employees (I think that is close to accurate number?). They are taking on the big boys and kicking a$$. Can't wait to see the P13. What is scary is how incredible the cars will be in several years when the economy is on a bull run and the profits are flowing back into R&D. Ferrari and Porsche are going to have to change their way of thinking on some things, or else expect to play second fiddle. Lambo, well sheet, does Lambo even make cars any more?
I agree. If the economy continues to improve, and nothing else comes along to blow it up, I think we're in for a wonderful time in the high-end car world. Porsche, Ferrari, McLaren will all stand to benefit and I think the competition between those three will really drive innovation and what's possible. As the gas/electric performance hybrid technology comes down from the P1 and 918 stratosphere, and continues to improve, it can only mean great things... It might mean your average mechanic's shop will need a resident Electrical Engineer as well :D.

Specifically for the P13, competing with the 911, NSX, re-designed R8, and whatever else is in the works, I think it will be a compelling offering. 6th, as you mentioned, McLaren is doing a great job. Even though there are plenty of others chasing after the 911's market, I have no doubt McLaren will win its fair share of the pie. It's the one I'm most anticipating out of the bunch I listed, and I highly doubt I'm alone on that!

-nh4.
 

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I agree. If the economy continues to improve, and nothing else comes along to blow it up, I think we're in for a wonderful time in the high-end car world. Porsche, Ferrari, McLaren will all stand to benefit and I think the competition between those three will really drive innovation and what's possible. As the gas/electric performance hybrid technology comes down from the P1 and 918 stratosphere, and continues to improve, it can only mean great things... It might mean your average mechanic's shop will need a resident Electrical Engineer as well :D.

Specifically for the P13, competing with the 911, NSX, re-designed R8, and whatever else is in the works, I think it will be a compelling offering. 6th, as you mentioned, McLaren is doing a great job. Even though there are plenty of others chasing after the 911's market, I have no doubt McLaren will win its fair share of the pie. It's the one I'm most anticipating out of the bunch I listed, and I highly doubt I'm alone on that!

-nh4.
Key is that the business plan calls for a relatively low number of units. They don't have to eat Porsche's lunch to succeed, just nibble some of the plate. Ron knew there was a pent up demand for McLaren road cars. Judging by the number of Porsche owners I know, locally, that have stumped up for the 12C even, he was definitely right. I think the P13, at its price point, will do very well. There's enough 911 Turbo guys in each market that will want the extra exclusivity and panache of the McLaren badge.
 

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It's interesting how the 911 is now seen as a mainstream performance car, albeit a very well engineered one. In my view it has lost it's exclusivity despite being a fine ownership prospect.

Mclaren and Ferrari remain exclusive and have super car status/ performance so if volumes stay at niche levels they surely will succeed.

Can't wait for the next iteration of the 12C...........mind boggling performance for sure.

The P13 intrigues on all fronts.......the first FS Mclaren main stream car (relatively) at a digestible price point. Roll on 2014!
 

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It's interesting how the 911 is now seen as a mainstream performance car, albeit a very well engineered one. In my view it has lost it's exclusivity despite being a fine ownership prospect.

Mclaren and Ferrari remain exclusive and have super car status/ performance so if volumes stay at niche levels they surely will succeed.

Can't wait for the next iteration of the 12C...........mind boggling performance for sure.

The P13 intrigues on all fronts.......the first FS Mclaren main stream car (relatively) at a digestible price point. Roll on 2014!
Don't forget that P13 will also have two more cylinders than the Porsche. Boys do like their pistons. :D
 

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I'm very interested in this car is it could be the one that finally gets me into the world of McLaren ownership. Although, I will probably be looking at a pre-owned which is a few years old. The other option by then could be an older 12c. Yes, the P13 will be much newer and probably superior in some ways to a 12c, but I love the looks of the 12c. I love that it's subdued, elegant and brooding and that it will age very well. Not to mention the interior is a masterwork of restraint and good taste. I have a feeling P13 may bit a bit flashy looking but let's wait and see. Exciting times ahead to be a McLaren fan. Now, about the F1 team...
 

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Regarding this wished for 'booming economy' and it's allied automobile sales (P13, R8, NSX) ...... A lot of what I've read says the U.S. economic outlook for 2014 is grim; not booming. "The CBO expects the U.S. economy in 2014 to remain moribund and for unemployment to remain near eight percent".
(Their words, not mine:()
 

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I'm very interested in this car is it could be the one that finally gets me into the world of McLaren ownership. Although, I will probably be looking at a pre-owned which is a few years old. The other option by then could be an older 12c. Yes, the P13 will be much newer and probably superior in some ways to a 12c, but I love the looks of the 12c. I love that it's subdued, elegant and brooding and that it will age very well. Not to mention the interior is a masterwork of restraint and good taste. I have a feeling P13 may bit a bit flashy looking but let's wait and see. Exciting times ahead to be a McLaren fan. Now, about the F1 team...
That's the same type of decision I'm hoping to make as well; new P13 or used 12c. I'm a big fan of both the 12c and P1 design, and of everything these cars do well, so I don't see a way to lose (unless I landed a 12c that was beaten regularly by a poor driver on a track).

I certainly agree that it is exciting times to be a McLaren fan!

-nh4.
 

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Regarding this wished for 'booming economy' and it's allied automobile sales (P13, R8, NSX) ...... A lot of what I've read says the U.S. economic outlook for 2014 is grim; not booming. "The CBO expects the U.S. economy in 2014 to remain moribund and for unemployment to remain near eight percent".
(Their words, not mine:()
A booming economy certainly would be better. I do have some concern that with all the new entries vying for a piece of the 911 market that there will be some casualties. Porsche has a pretty wide moat, and makes a pretty compelling product. I think there is certainly room for competition in the space, and I do think McLaren has good odds of getting their share of that market with the P13.

One comment on the economic outlook... Though the overall economy is projected to grow slower than trend, net wealth growth for folks in the top 10% or so of the economy is much better than average, and barring a blow-up in the stock market, will likely continue to outpace the median numbers.

-nh4.
 

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It is probably a P1 development mule with the larger hybrid addition AS THERE IS A SLIGHTLY LONGER wheelbase mule but with the track type paint.

The P13 is a 2 seater confirmed by MPC.

Apparently the four seater to follow will be four door to meet EU safety legislation ( all passengers to have individual egress option ) Porsche will get round this by making the rear seats an aftermarket illegal item sold through Amazon/EBay
 
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