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Andrew, not a fan of the new R8 look, from what I've seen so far. And as much as I'm rooting for the NSX, the look thus far, which seems close to final, isn't doing it for me. I think I'm still not over them dropping the far more gorgeous HSC (whose designer, apparently when on to do the F458):







Maybe in person it will show better, and some cars take a little time to appreciate.

Nick, agree, it does look a bit like the current R8.

These are all rush photoshop jobs, so I wouldn't put too much stock in them.
 

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Andrew, not a fan of the new R8 look, from what I've seen so far. And as much as I'm rooting for the NSX, the look thus far, which seems close to final, isn't doing it for me. I think I'm still not over them dropping the far more gorgeous HSC (whose designer, apparently when on to do the F458):







Maybe in person it will show better, and some cars take a little time to appreciate.

Nick, agree, it does look a bit like the current R8.

These are all rush photoshop jobs, so I wouldn't put too much stock in them.
I actually quite like the front end look of that nsx....very clean and futuristic looking. I am obviously not a fan of all this curvy lines that mclaren seem to favour at the moment - they are just not menacing enough and undervalue the cars performance if you get what i mean
 

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Yea, the HSC concept is a clean and sexy machine, with real cues back to the original NSX. Unfortunately they lost the designer to ferrari who then basically copy/pasted the design into the 458.

The P1 in person is rather astounding. It's its own life form and very different from the traditional pininfarina analogues in the car world. I didn't like it at all to start with. I still don't like it at all in the yellow/orange colors.

However, seeing it in person, even in the orange that I'm not a fan of, it changed my perception very much so. It. Is. Intense. And in black, it's like some aliens vs predator killing machine tech. It comes across as very purpose built and maniacal in person, at least to me. Imposing, it very much is, in the flesh.
 

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Yea, the HSC concept is a clean and sexy machine, with real cues back to the original NSX. Unfortunately they lost the designer to ferrari who then basically copy/pasted the design into the 458.

The P1 in person is rather astounding. It's its own life form and very different from the traditional pininfarina analogues in the car world. I didn't like it at all to start with. I still don't like it at all in the yellow/orange colors.

However, seeing it in person, even in the orange that I'm not a fan of, it changed my perception very much so. It. Is. Intense. And in black, it's like some aliens vs predator killing machine tech. It comes across as very purpose built and maniacal in person, at least to me. Imposing, it very much is, in the flesh.
....hmmm i still think that the cockpit section on the P1 is too tall in propotion to the rest of the body. This spoils the side on view, and from the front, it makes the car look too narrow.
 

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....hmmm i still think that the cockpit section on the P1 is too tall in propotion to the rest of the body. This spoils the side on view, and from the front, it makes the car look too narrow.
That's why you've got to see P1 in the flesh AA, all your concerned perceptions will be debunked immediately. It looks amazing, different and new.
 

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That's why you've got to see P1 in the flesh AA, all your concerned perceptions will be debunked immediately. It looks amazing, different and new.
I saw it in Paris in 2012 - the cockpit is still too high in relation to the body of the car. Maybe it works better in single dark colours. Show it to my 2 sons and they didnt find it pretty either
 

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I saw it in Paris in 2012 - the cockpit is still too high in relation to the body of the car. Maybe it works better in single dark colours. Show it to my 2 sons and they didnt find it pretty either
Andrew, I had the same reaction when in Paris, oversized cab in relation to low waist line...............thought it ugly to be Frank!

However now I have seen one several times, sat in it, touched it and oohed and aarrrrd it has grown on me . I would not be against owning one .

Pretty it will never be in my eyes. Dramatic techno fest, most definitely . It is a grower style wise imop.
 

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Andrew, I had the same reaction when in Paris, oversized cab in relation to low waist line...............thought it ugly to be Frank!

However now I have seen one several times, sat in it, touched it and oohed and aarrrrd it has grown on me . I would not be against owning one .

Pretty it will never be in my eyes. Dramatic techno fest, most definitely . It is a grower style wise imop.
They said that the 12c is a grower - not sure. I think when something is bang on right, you know it instantly. For me the P1 isnt an instant design hit
 

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Andrew. No problem. We all have different eyes. Some people see the Edsel as a work of automotive art.

Interestingly my wife followed our MP12 for a mile or so last Thursday.........she said, ' Have you ever followed our car, it is so beautiful'..........how can you follow yourself, I did not say!
 

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Andrew. No problem. We all have different eyes. Some people see the Edsel as a work of automotive art.

Interestingly my wife followed our MP12 for a mile or so last Thursday.........she said, ' Have you ever followed our car, it is so beautiful'..........how can you follow yourself, I did not say!
No one can follow you RIC.. There's no doubt about that ! :D:)
 

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Mikey. I clocked an unmarked Police car following me a couple of weeks ago on my fave 'B' road......Findern to St Neots, Beds to Cambs. It was a white BMW 5 SERIES with blacked out windows and LED colourless lights behind the grill.....crafty stuff.

The give away was it was clean and did some stupid overtakes to keep up.......some very stupid overtakes! So I kept to the speed limit in the villages and , sort of, on the open road.

He had to pull me in , didn't he? Then I could see 3 others in the car......pursuit training I guessed.

'We won't book you Sir, this is a training exercise and when we saw you pull into the main road we thought we would pursue.' ' Yes, Inspector. Some of those overtakes were very training exercise!'

'Nice car Sir, much faster than ours'
 

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Mikey. I clocked an unmarked Police car following me a couple of weeks ago on my fave 'B' road......Findern to St Neots, Beds to Cambs. It was a white BMW 5 SERIES with blacked out windows and LED colourless lights behind the grill.....crafty stuff.

The give away was it was clean and did some stupid overtakes to keep up.......some very stupid overtakes! So I kept to the speed limit in the villages and , sort of, on the open road.

He had to pull me in , didn't he? Then I could see 3 others in the car......pursuit training I guessed.

'We won't book you Sir, this is a training exercise and when we saw you pull into the main road we thought we would pursue.' ' Yes, Inspector. Some of those overtakes were very training exercise!'

'Nice car Sir, much faster than ours'
I often used to go and do the b645 and b660... In all my years of doing that I think I saw one cop car so you did well... !
If they see that you've seen them, they're always reasonable in my mind. To me they're testing if you're observant and paying attention. You get much more flex that way...
 

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From Autoblog.com
"McLaren Automotive has only been in business for a few of years now, but already it has launched the 12C, the 12C Spider and the new P1. It's not about to stop there. Next up will be the long-rumored P13, a smaller, lighter sportscar aimed at the top end of the Porsche 911 range.

Now expected to arrive late next year, the P13 will borrow heavily from its existing stablemates. That means a lightweight carbon monocoque, a detuned version of Woking's 3.8-liter twin-turbo V8 engine and seven-speed Pre-Cog dual-clutch transmission and styling penned by Frank Stephenson and appearing closer to that of the P1 than the 12C.

The latest intel projects it'll churn out around 450 horsepower, which would make it significantly less powerful than the 911 Turbo it'll go up against. It also won't benefit from the Porsche's all-wheel traction, but its lighter projected curb weight ought to make it a close match in performance. UK pricing is tipped to come in around £120,000, which translates to about $190k or about $70k less than the 12C. That'd make it a touch more expensive than the top of the 911 and Audi R8 coupe ranges, but promises to deliver a higher degree of exclusivity, although US pricing could be adjusted accordingly. "
 

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The following makes most sense to me...

P1: 725 bhp + 175 e-hp
12C: 625 bhp
P13: 525 bhp

Not sure if going w/ 450 bhp, only to "optimize" through updates incrementally is the way to go, if trying to encroach 911 Turbo territory from the outset. From the factory, much easier (relatively speaking) to add power vs. decreasing weight (increased costs due to more carbon/composite materials).

Can't believe it. I've finally buckled in w/ regards to the HP wars... :D
 

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The following makes most sense to me...

P1: 725 bhp + 175 e-hp
12C: 625 bhp
P13: 525 bhp

Not sure if going w/ 450 bhp, only to "optimize" through updates incrementally is the way to go, if trying to encroach 911 Turbo territory from the outset. From the factory, much easier (relatively speaking) to add power vs. decreasing weight (increased costs due to more carbon/composite materials).

Can't believe it. I've finally buckled in w/ regards to the HP wars... :D
I borrowed a 991 turbo S for the day and its faster on the road than my 12C Spider. So much more torque. The P13 will need outputs not much below the 12C to compete.
 

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A lot of how "better" gets measured is fairly subjective though. If a P13 can't take a 991 911TS in a drag race, but laps most tracks quicker, is it better, a draw? To be a potential buyer of either car, the decision is going to be a fairly complex one, or at least one where a lot of factors are measured; looks, performance, features, comfort, will it get the chicks :D. Sure there will be folks that will buy the Porsche because it's a Porsche, and some that will buy the McLaren because it's a McLaren. Whatever the stats are won't sway those buyers. There are many threads and posts on the 12c vs. 458 decisions that owners here have made.

With both the 12c and the P1, McLaren have done a wonderful job of identifying the competition, where they can better them, and doing what they set out to do. I think the P13 has great odds of being a very compelling offering against the 911.

-nh4.
 
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