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Discussion Starter #1
I am new to the forum, so please let me know if my comments are out of line.

We all known for years that a certain company in Italy has historically provided "juiced" cars to automotive magazines to amp up their performance numbers. It's part of their mystique and if they didn't do it, we'd all be nervous about what they were really up to. ['ya just got to love those EYE-talians]. But I think in the case of the magazine tests of the 458, it has come back to bite their collective bottom and provide an unexpected to benefit to all the McLaren owners (current, future, MP4-12C and others). Here's my take:

1. The F-boys provided their typically juiced 458 for magazine testing and it came much closer to the MP4-12C's performance than Woking expected. Normally, that is where it all would end. The 458 would have equal or better numbers than the competitive car and F-car sales would proceed accordingly. But here's where it all went awry.

2. McLaren, instead of just taking its lumps, BEING AN ENGINEERING COMPANY, dialed more horsepower and a more aggressive shift sequence into the MP4-12C and opened up the gap from the 458. Then, they gave the upgrades to everyone FOR FREE. Now, F-world was really stuck. The MP4-12C performed better than even their juiced car. That never happened to them before. :eek: Good Grief!! But wait, there's more.

3. No doubt, Woking had planned a certain performance gap between the MP4-12C and the forthcoming McLaren even-more-super car -- -- good sense and sound marketing. But now, since the MP4-12C's performance has been moved up the food chain, the next, higher performance model, will also have to be amped up proportionally. So now, the gap between that next McLaren and whatever the Maranello gang plan to build is going to be that much greater. So the Modena boys' bad conduct got them slapped twice. :eek::eek:

4. But there's one more wack at the pride of Italy. Their product progression is always the same: (1) base model, (2) a year later the spyder and (3) in 18 more months the Stradle/Scuderia type final model. But the improved MP4-12C will have more performance than the next Stradale/Scuderia iteration, so more problems for the red cars. Their street champion isn't one. :eek::eek::eek:

To make matters worse, the fact that McLaren made the MP4-12C upgrades available to all at no cost was a PR coup and pure McLaren class. :D

So, like mommy taught us (and apparently our friends in Modena weren't listening to their Mommy), when you do naughty things, naughty things happen to you -- -- most of which you never anticipated.

I apologize for this being so long and if I've unfairly ruffled some feathers, I'll apologize for that too. But sometimes it's good to stir things up and for right now, that's how I see it. Congrats to everyone whose supercar has an M-swoosh emblem on it.
 

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George,thats how many of us see it,the hard part is making the magazines play ball,which we know they never will.The good part of your prognosis is will the Suderia come to fruition when they know there is Gt3 in the pipeline?? Im sure it will as many are hardline Ferrari customers and all competition improves the breed.They will always have their passion,which to most is whats its about.But i will be interesting where this all leads us in 10 years time:)
 

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George, not sure if you are saying Mclaren have been naive or Fezza have competition?:D
 

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Certainly, Ferrari cannot be overjoyed that the 12C has sold over 1000 units already and that the 12C Spider seems to a success, as well. If the bad economy persists, as it now seems it will for several more years, Ferrari would surely rather not have any real competition for buyers.

However, never underestimate Maranello - for as deceitful as they are, they are twice as clever. It's not the objective performance of their press cars that matters so much as the subjective performance. How do you think a press car that is 200+ pounds lighter than a customer car, riding on extra sticky tires, half a second faster through the 1/4 mile and probably revving to 500 extra rpm feels to a journalist driving it? Pretty damned awesome, I would think, regardless of the badge on the front. (Chris Harris' allegations, not mine)

So, with regards to objective performance - the numbers - they only need to get "close enough" to stay relevant. That, I am sure, they can easily accomplish with any competitor going forwards, just as they have done versus Porsche and Lambo for years.

I have it on very good authority that there is a reason the comparo tests stopped suddenly and that there are some very specific conditions under which McLaren is willing to further participate in the media charade. I also have it on same authority that when presented with the new "rules of engagement" by a well known publication, a certain competitor refused to play ball. You fill in the blanks. Let's see who flinches first for the inevitable Spider comparos - should be another riot.
 

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Discussion Starter #6
George, not sure if you are saying Mclaren have been naive or Fezza have competition?:D
I'm saying McLaren built exactly the car they intended to build, the F-crowd made their move with a juiced car, and for once they were outsmarted.

Like my two sons tell me: "Just Sayin' " :D :D
 

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Timely case in point for anybody that is interested (probably only me, I know! :p)
Have a look at Harry Metcalfe's twitter feed for today and you'll see that he was trying to drive a dealer's Ferrari FF, but was not allowed to do so by Ferrari:

https://twitter.com/harrym_evo

Goes on to say that he is only allowed to drive press cars, not even dealer cars. Hmmm, so a factory-fresh standard customer car, supplied by its own dealer, is off limits to any journalist. And when one of Harry's followers said "Shocking behaviour. Why are they so scared about you driving a standard car. Makes a mockery of all car launch magazine reviews", Harry re-tweeted it, himself.

Be careful, Ferrari - don't go pissing off 'ol Harry and denying him the chance to galavant with his friends. He will no likey, no, no, no. You don't need even more journalists opening the curtains...
 

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I don't know about juiced car. There have been many 458's hitting 11 to really low 11's in the 1/4 mile. Biggest improvement is away from the Pirelli tires, and using the Michelin Pilot Super sports.

Let's not forget the F1 teams that were using the trick Michelin tires that expanded and gave more grip, and McLaren was one of them if you remember.

Is the MP4-12C faster in a straight line? Absolutely. But it is also lighter, and has over 30 more hp, it should be faster.

The issues with the magazines, is the engine sound, and excitement the car creates. Will be driving one this Saturday for the first time, so I will see if it is for me.

I do agree though, the Free Upgrades are a huge positive. Ferrari should have done the same with the new shifting and handling programs between pre-2012 models, and 2012 models. Charging for this upgrade is ludicrous.
 

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That is just PATHETIC.
It's not pathetic, that's why people hate Journalists. Ever seen a movie where someone says off the record, then it's put on the record? Get the point? What if the car had a mechanical failure, and then the Journalist goes posting and writing everywhere what a POS the FF is.
 

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1. The F-boys provided their typically juiced 458 for magazine testing and it came much closer to the MP4-12C's performance than Woking expected. Normally, that is where it all would end. The 458 would have equal or better numbers than the competitive car and F-car sales would proceed accordingly. But here's where it all went awry.

2. McLaren, instead of just taking its lumps, BEING AN ENGINEERING COMPANY, dialed more horsepower and a more aggressive shift sequence into the MP4-12C and opened up the gap from the 458. Then, they gave the upgrades to everyone FOR FREE. Now, F-world was really stuck. The MP4-12C performed better than even their juiced car. That never happened to them before. :eek: Good Grief!! But wait, there's more.

3. No doubt, Woking had planned a certain performance gap between the MP4-12C and the forthcoming McLaren even-more-super car -- -- good sense and sound marketing. But now, since the MP4-12C's performance has been moved up the food chain, the next, higher performance model, will also have to be amped up proportionally. So now, the gap between that next McLaren and whatever the Maranello gang plan to build is going to be that much greater. So the Modena boys' bad conduct got them slapped twice. :eek::eek:

4. But there's one more wack at the pride of Italy. Their product progression is always the same: (1) base model, (2) a year later the spyder and (3) in 18 more months the Stradle/Scuderia type final model. But the improved MP4-12C will have more performance than the next Stradale/Scuderia iteration, so more problems for the red cars. Their street champion isn't one. :eek::eek::eek:
A lot of crystal ball gazing going on when you start making claims about cars that are yet to be launched from both Ferrari and McLaren.
 

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It's not pathetic, that's why people hate Journalists. Ever seen a movie where someone says off the record, then it's put on the record? Get the point? What if the car had a mechanical failure, and then the Journalist goes posting and writing everywhere what a POS the FF is.
Huh? You'd rather be shielded from the truth, so the manufacturer can control the media and the portrayal of its products? Any reputable journalist is not going to denigrate a car for an unforeseen mechanical issue. Rather, most of the time they are quite understanding of one-off problems and try not to let them shade their overall impressions. Ferrari hides their press car shenanigans behind this statement of any other car being of "unknown provenance" and therefore somehow not representative of a customer car. In the case of a dealer supplied car, clearly this is BS. In fact, if you read further in Metcalfe's thread, there were apparently 3 FFs to choose from, including a UK press car! So not only is the car an issue, but presumably the random conditions of somebody driving a car in the real world, without Ferrari having a hand in orchestrating the event, is also prohibited?

Sorry if I misunderstand your post.
 

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Huh? You'd rather be shielded from the truth, so the manufacturer can control the media and the portrayal of its products? Any reputable journalist is not going to denigrate a car for an unforeseen mechanical issue. Rather, most of the time they are quite understanding of one-off problems and try not to let them shade their overall impressions. Ferrari hides their press car shenanigans behind this statement of any other car being of "unknown provenance" and therefore somehow not representative of a customer car. In the case of a dealer supplied car, clearly this is BS. In fact, if you read further in Metcalfe's thread, there were apparently 3 FFs to choose from, including a UK press car! So not only is the car an issue, but presumably the random conditions of somebody driving a car in the real world, without Ferrari having a hand in orchestrating the event, is also prohibited?

Sorry if I misunderstand your post.
Please state some facts. What specific test number is false? There are plenty of customer Youtube videos of 458's hitting 11.00 second 1/4 mile numbers. 458's gain quite a bit of performance after the change to Michelin. The questions about the Scuderia tests are regarding use of Launch Control, or acceleration runs without it.

I do question the Top Gear time achieved by the MP4, but then there are accusations that this is where the MP4 was developed, so they should set a great time there.

I own a 430 Scuderia, and 670-4 SV. Both are amazing cars in their own ways. I have a 458 on order, but may cancel it if the test drive Saturday goes well, will see. My issues so far with the MP4 are:

Looks of the nose, looks of the rear, no stitching on seats, maybe ingress / egress won't know until I get in an out of it, engine sound / excitement, feel and size of the shifters (won't know until I drive one) dealer representation in Washington State / Oregon.

I love the looks of the HS bodywork, Mclaren made a huge mistake not making this standard, and only doing this upgrade for a wealthy client / clients. New nose for $27k? Can't they make one out of fiberglass, with maybe a carbon lip? Vented louvers for 15k? Seriously?

Again, won't know until after a drive.
 

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P.S. are you actually the Markjayw that was ceremoniously exiled from ferrarichat, or are you just using one of his now infamous handles?
 

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It's not pathetic, that's why people hate Journalists. Ever seen a movie where someone says off the record, then it's put on the record? Get the point? What if the car had a mechanical failure, and then the Journalist goes posting and writing everywhere what a POS the FF is.
To think that they have the right to tell an individual what (not) to do is what's the problem here.

It is just BEYOND ridiculous that a journalist is not allowed to drive any other Ferrari than one provided by Ferrari. The arrogance is just mind blowing.

But given the post count I suspect I am feeding a troll.
 

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P.S. are you actually the Markjayw that was ceremoniously exiled from ferrarichat, or are you just using one of his now infamous handles?
I am, so what is your point? Have no problems on Ferrarilife.com, won't have any here either, unless you want to start one?
 

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To think that they have the right to tell an individual what (not) to do is what's the problem here.

It is just BEYOND ridiculous that a journalist is not allowed to drive any other Ferrari than one provided by Ferrari. The arrogance is just mind blowing.

But given the post count I suspect I am feeding a troll.
They do have the right to tell a Dealership what to do, if that Dealer wants to stay a Dealer. In my business I deal with major suppliers all the time, have to do a lot of kissing, that's part of business, if you don't like it, then pick another supplier, but I doubt there is one Dealer who would ever want to lose a Ferrari Franchise.
 

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Please state some facts. What specific test number is false? There are plenty of customer Youtube videos of 458's hitting 11.00 second 1/4 mile numbers. 458's gain quite a bit of performance after the change to Michelin. The questions about the Scuderia tests are regarding use of Launch Control, or acceleration runs without it.

I do question the Top Gear time achieved by the MP4, but then there are accusations that this is where the MP4 was developed, so they should set a great time there.

I own a 430 Scuderia, and 670-4 SV. Both are amazing cars in their own ways. I have a 458 on order, but may cancel it if the test drive Saturday goes well, will see. My issues so far with the MP4 are:

Looks of the nose, looks of the rear, no stitching on seats, maybe ingress / egress won't know until I get in an out of it, engine sound / excitement, feel and size of the shifters (won't know until I drive one) dealer representation in Washington State / Oregon.

I love the looks of the HS bodywork, Mclaren made a huge mistake not making this standard, and only doing this upgrade for a wealthy client / clients. New nose for $27k? Can't they make one out of fiberglass, with maybe a carbon lip? Vented louvers for 15k? Seriously?

Again, won't know until after a drive.
State facts? Here's one: An industry insider let the cat completely out of the bag regarding Ferrari's practices and their stranglehold on the media, more of which illustrated here by Metcalfe's rejection today. If your best friend said he was in the room when your wife cheated on you, would you not believe him unless he provided video?

Let's see if Harry mans up and rightfully makes a proper stink about this smelly situation. Or is he going to continue to turn the other cheek to avoid hampering EVO's circulation numbers.
 
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